Barrel relining
- Thread starter chasseur
- Start date
Ron Smith, Wimbourne AB makes 22 cal barrel liners and could install it or send it to you to have another gunsmith chamber and install it. I am sure he could do the conversion to rimfire too but may not want to do that type of work: he is primarily a barrel maker.
Username guntech, aka Dennis Sorrensen ( I hope I got that spelled correctly) is a practicing 'smith on Vancouver Island. He said in another thread that he charges $150 for an install of a liner. Catch is, you need to come up with a liner to use, and they are not exporting at this time, apparently. Homeland Security and Export Licensing issues on the US side.
Depending how the Martini was made CF, it may be as simple as a wee bit of weld onto the tips of the lever where they hold the block up and closed, a replacement RF lever, or it may be more complicated than that. Original Cadet or one already converted to CF from a rimfire original? BSA, or one of the many Belgian and English made rook rifles? Each has their own differences and similarities, but they do not all get treated the exact same.
I have had a couple friends that had work done by him, and they were really happy.
Cheers
Trev
Depending how the Martini was made CF, it may be as simple as a wee bit of weld onto the tips of the lever where they hold the block up and closed, a replacement RF lever, or it may be more complicated than that. Original Cadet or one already converted to CF from a rimfire original? BSA, or one of the many Belgian and English made rook rifles? Each has their own differences and similarities, but they do not all get treated the exact same.
I have had a couple friends that had work done by him, and they were really happy.
Cheers
Trev
Dennis does good work from what I've seen.
One other thing to consider when getting a center fire converted to rimfire is the chamber area of the original barrel. If you are planning on trying to keep the rifle looking original by retaining the barrel then you will need a custom liner. The liners that used to be available here were made to reline rifles that were already chambered in 22rf. Many moons back, I put a "sleeve" into a Remington Rolling Block that had been through a fire. I got the barreled action for $25 and it needed a lot of TLC just to get it working again. In the end, I wanted to keep it looking original as all of the parts I needed were available from Numrich. All except the barrel liner of course.
I ended up purchasing a Green River barrel blank turned to 1 inch diameter, through bitsofpieces.com with a 224 diameter bore with a 1x12 twist rate. This was an excellent barrel considering the price. The biggest issue was to get one in that was long enough to fit from the chamber face to the muzzle. It took them a couple of months to put it together but Barry prevailed.
OK, the existing barrel had to be completely drilled through with enough left to retain the original appearance and markings. The rifle had been chambered in 43 Egyptian. It worked out quite well actually.
First the barrel was cleaned up with a 7/16" drill that had a 3/8" piece of drill rod welded to the shank. NO, I didn't make up a pilot for the drill. The long original barrel made it impossible to chuck up so it had to be drilled out by hand. This isn't as big a deal as it sounds. The bit was only slightly larger than the original bore.
Next, the chamber needed to be cleaned up. To make life easier The chamber area was cleaned out to a straight profile with a 5/8" bit.
Next, the barrel was profiled on the lathe, using a steady rest and half rest. Not a lot to play with here as far as overall length goes. The GR barrel was just 30in long. In hindsight, if I were to do this again with the same chamber, I would have picked up a hammer forged barrel from Wolf in Texas with very close diameters where I needed them.
To shorten this up, I had a 30 in barrel liner with a 7/16" barrel and a 5/8" step on the chamber area.
This rifle was going to be made up as a 22WMR and I chambered it before installing it in the existing barrel, which was still in the receiver. That was a mistake in hindsight as well but WTH. The mistake was not taking the barrel out of the receiver.
OK, now the install. When I first decided to attempt this build I was going to solder the sleeve into the barrel. That can be an awkward and tedious job with all sorts of pitfalls. In the end, the tolerances between the ID of the barrel and the OD of the sleeve were within .003-.005 in all the way through. Solder would have worked but I was worried about voids. Not really a biggie, considering the diameter of the sleeve. I opted for Titanium Putty instead. This was a blessing in disguise. No heat or warpage created by heat. I cleaned up all the surfaces first with wood alcohol, then applied a liberal coating of TP to all the surfaces I wanted bonded. The "sleeve" slipped all the way in to the inner shoulder and stopped a hair to far in. A quick tap on the muzzle brought it back to flush and helped set the putty. This stuff sets up pretty quickly and has very good tensile strength for jobs such as this. I also use it when making up non restricted 30 M1 carbine barrels and when making up new barrels on prohib pistols to get them reclassified. Great stuff. Not cheap but it sure does the job.
The next step was to clean up and crown the excess sleeve sticking out the muzzle end. The chamber area was, luckily, perfect.
After this, making up an off center firing pin and cleaning up the breech block for a quick test fire. It worked. Then came a couple of months fitting the parts, cleaning up the metal, bluing etc. That rifle was a lot of work and in the end, far more expensive than purchasing a new rifle. It was very accurate but in the end to heavy to lug into the field. It now resides somewhere in south Manitoba where it was scoped and set up for long range Rabbit shooting.
One other thing to consider when getting a center fire converted to rimfire is the chamber area of the original barrel. If you are planning on trying to keep the rifle looking original by retaining the barrel then you will need a custom liner. The liners that used to be available here were made to reline rifles that were already chambered in 22rf. Many moons back, I put a "sleeve" into a Remington Rolling Block that had been through a fire. I got the barreled action for $25 and it needed a lot of TLC just to get it working again. In the end, I wanted to keep it looking original as all of the parts I needed were available from Numrich. All except the barrel liner of course.
I ended up purchasing a Green River barrel blank turned to 1 inch diameter, through bitsofpieces.com with a 224 diameter bore with a 1x12 twist rate. This was an excellent barrel considering the price. The biggest issue was to get one in that was long enough to fit from the chamber face to the muzzle. It took them a couple of months to put it together but Barry prevailed.
OK, the existing barrel had to be completely drilled through with enough left to retain the original appearance and markings. The rifle had been chambered in 43 Egyptian. It worked out quite well actually.
First the barrel was cleaned up with a 7/16" drill that had a 3/8" piece of drill rod welded to the shank. NO, I didn't make up a pilot for the drill. The long original barrel made it impossible to chuck up so it had to be drilled out by hand. This isn't as big a deal as it sounds. The bit was only slightly larger than the original bore.
Next, the chamber needed to be cleaned up. To make life easier The chamber area was cleaned out to a straight profile with a 5/8" bit.
Next, the barrel was profiled on the lathe, using a steady rest and half rest. Not a lot to play with here as far as overall length goes. The GR barrel was just 30in long. In hindsight, if I were to do this again with the same chamber, I would have picked up a hammer forged barrel from Wolf in Texas with very close diameters where I needed them.
To shorten this up, I had a 30 in barrel liner with a 7/16" barrel and a 5/8" step on the chamber area.
This rifle was going to be made up as a 22WMR and I chambered it before installing it in the existing barrel, which was still in the receiver. That was a mistake in hindsight as well but WTH. The mistake was not taking the barrel out of the receiver.
OK, now the install. When I first decided to attempt this build I was going to solder the sleeve into the barrel. That can be an awkward and tedious job with all sorts of pitfalls. In the end, the tolerances between the ID of the barrel and the OD of the sleeve were within .003-.005 in all the way through. Solder would have worked but I was worried about voids. Not really a biggie, considering the diameter of the sleeve. I opted for Titanium Putty instead. This was a blessing in disguise. No heat or warpage created by heat. I cleaned up all the surfaces first with wood alcohol, then applied a liberal coating of TP to all the surfaces I wanted bonded. The "sleeve" slipped all the way in to the inner shoulder and stopped a hair to far in. A quick tap on the muzzle brought it back to flush and helped set the putty. This stuff sets up pretty quickly and has very good tensile strength for jobs such as this. I also use it when making up non restricted 30 M1 carbine barrels and when making up new barrels on prohib pistols to get them reclassified. Great stuff. Not cheap but it sure does the job.
The next step was to clean up and crown the excess sleeve sticking out the muzzle end. The chamber area was, luckily, perfect.
After this, making up an off center firing pin and cleaning up the breech block for a quick test fire. It worked. Then came a couple of months fitting the parts, cleaning up the metal, bluing etc. That rifle was a lot of work and in the end, far more expensive than purchasing a new rifle. It was very accurate but in the end to heavy to lug into the field. It now resides somewhere in south Manitoba where it was scoped and set up for long range Rabbit shooting.
It might be easier to replace the breech block. You might be able to swap with someone to go the other way.
Brownells will sell liners, but a USD 250 export license is required.
Refining a rimfire barrel isn't a big job, with a proper piloted drill bit and it can be done at home.
I recently made a liner by turning down an Anschutz .22 target rifle barrel.
That was a big job. In hindsight, I should have bit the bullet and ordered a bunch of liners from Brownell's.
Brownells will sell liners, but a USD 250 export license is required.
Refining a rimfire barrel isn't a big job, with a proper piloted drill bit and it can be done at home.
I recently made a liner by turning down an Anschutz .22 target rifle barrel.
That was a big job. In hindsight, I should have bit the bullet and ordered a bunch of liners from Brownell's.
"Convert a center fire martini rifle to rim fire"...
Having done a few of these many years ago I can advise you in my opinion it is an extremely expensive project. A project that ends up costing considerably more than what it will actually be worth.
Just buy a rim fire version if you have such a desire for the Martini. Convert your center fire to a pistol cartridge.
Having done a few of these many years ago I can advise you in my opinion it is an extremely expensive project. A project that ends up costing considerably more than what it will actually be worth.
Just buy a rim fire version if you have such a desire for the Martini. Convert your center fire to a pistol cartridge.
While I bow to your experience guntech, can you explain further? Did you weld and re-drill for the firing pin?
I have been interested in Martini actions since I was a kid, reading all I could about them. IIRC, they first came on my radar when Guns and Ammo published an article about a custom Cadet that was chambered in a .17 on a .38 Special case, if I am remembering well.
In any case, my understanding is that BSA essentially only changed the Barrel, The Extractor, and the ends of the lever, where they lift the breech block up, as the major differences between the rimfire and CF versions of the Cadet actions. The rimfire's raise the breech block higher than the CF versions. I have read that they didn't even change the breech face angle from one to the other, though I cannot make any claims to the accuracy of that info. So I have been led to understand.
The other makers, Francotte and more, may have done different things, thus my original line of questions.
Like any 'custom' effort, what you need to spend to put it together does not often come back out of the finished project (unlike some of the perpetual dreamers on the EE!
), so as that goes, I think it's understood.Cheers
Trev
I chose not to change the angle of the breech bolt. I welded up the current firing pin hole ( slightly annealing* that area) and made the breech bolt surface flat again, keeping the same angle as before. Then I located where the rim of the case would be located when the breech bolt was closed. Set up and drilled a short small hole. Then ground the firing pin tip off and annealed the end of the firing pin area... and with the firing pin in a fired position in the breech block, continued to **drill the firing pin hole into the end of the firing pin. Then removed the firing pin and continued that hole... ending up silver soldering a piece of round spring stock into the end of the firing pin... eventually making it the correct length with a flat end parallel to the bolt surface.
**Try to keep the angle of the firing pin hole close to the angle of the firing pin within the breech bolt.
Annealing* needs to take place and will not affect the safety or integrity of the breech bolt. Polish the colour changes away when you are all done.
**Try to keep the angle of the firing pin hole close to the angle of the firing pin within the breech bolt.
Annealing* needs to take place and will not affect the safety or integrity of the breech bolt. Polish the colour changes away when you are all done.
Thanks!
I have seen all manner of conversions, a couple in hand, and many more online, and there seems no end of ways to reach the end goal.
Everything from simply alter the lever and go, to grafting in a new face on the breech block, either by welding, silver soldering, or dovetailing in a slip of material, grinding or milling the face to meet the requirements, etc. Some of the conversions might have been less work to have built from scratch, and there are some truly talented metalsmiths out there.
As I see it, the main problem with building a custom like this, is, first, you just want the barrel done, then, you figure maybe some nicer wood, and a refinish of the metal, then, maybe a little classy engraving, then a scope mount....and then....
Ka-ching!I can think of worse ways to burn through my money! And slower ones!
Cheers
Trev
I've converted several Martini actions to everything from 22rf to 45-70. The large receiver conversions to 22 rimfire require the most work. The other conversions are much more straight forward. In the case of the firing pin placement which requires the striker face to be reshaped and the original hole in the block face welded and drilled. It'a a bit more tedious than converting to a high pressure center fire cartridge. One thing that almost always needs to be done is the firing pin recontoured and the block face hole either bushed or welded and drilled to a smaller diameter. Also the extractor needs to be welded up and recontoured fit the rim of the new cartridge. There was a time, at least a couple of decades back when new made extractors could be purchased for installation with a bit of hand fitting.
These actions are very strong and very simple mechanically. They can even be chambered for rimless rounds. That is a bit trickier as the extractor has to be spring loaded and usually only has a one sided extraction arm rather than one that surrounds half the circumference of the case. I converted one to 257 Roberts. It was a nice rifle but when all was said and done, I wouldn't do it again. If I had to do it all over again and still wanted a 25 cal cartridge I would use an action converted or built for the 303Brit, get a 25/303 reamer and install a new barrel or decent take off barrel, which are difficult to find with a faster twist rate in 25 cal. Most of the take offs I've come across have a 1-14 twist rate. If I'm going to a cartridge that can deliver good performance I want a quicker twist such as 1-10 for the heavier/longer bullets.
I still have one small action that I converted at least 20 years ago to a 257 Maxi, which is the 357 Maximum necked down to 25 caliber but instead of a long taper it has a one diameter neck length with a 30 degree shoulder. The twist rate is 1-12 and it loves 75-87 grain bullets. Light, handy and lazer like accuracy if I do my part.
Martinis are a great rifle for a budding smith to start with. There used to be a fellow out of the UK that would supply short chambered, prethreaded barrels in any common cartridge with a rim and even some of the more popular wildcats. The barrels were relieved for the extractor which was usually part of the package. Not cheap but considering the time necessary to do the work, not out of line either. That went downhill shortly after the UK became extremely anal with their firearms laws.
Still, just about anyone can do the work at home. A bit of lathe work may be necessary but that can be done at a local machine shop if you give them proper drawings to work with. None of this is rocket science but it isn't a project for a starter/non finisher. It is however a great learning curve. A lot can be garnered experience wise by doing up a custom Martini. I was lucky because back in the day Marstar brought in a bunch of complete actions without barrels as well as a bunch of parts. They still have some parts. Martinis are great. Everything on them can be made at home other than the receiver. Even the receiver could be made up in a home machine shop with a small milling machine and lathe.
These actions are very strong and very simple mechanically. They can even be chambered for rimless rounds. That is a bit trickier as the extractor has to be spring loaded and usually only has a one sided extraction arm rather than one that surrounds half the circumference of the case. I converted one to 257 Roberts. It was a nice rifle but when all was said and done, I wouldn't do it again. If I had to do it all over again and still wanted a 25 cal cartridge I would use an action converted or built for the 303Brit, get a 25/303 reamer and install a new barrel or decent take off barrel, which are difficult to find with a faster twist rate in 25 cal. Most of the take offs I've come across have a 1-14 twist rate. If I'm going to a cartridge that can deliver good performance I want a quicker twist such as 1-10 for the heavier/longer bullets.
I still have one small action that I converted at least 20 years ago to a 257 Maxi, which is the 357 Maximum necked down to 25 caliber but instead of a long taper it has a one diameter neck length with a 30 degree shoulder. The twist rate is 1-12 and it loves 75-87 grain bullets. Light, handy and lazer like accuracy if I do my part.
Martinis are a great rifle for a budding smith to start with. There used to be a fellow out of the UK that would supply short chambered, prethreaded barrels in any common cartridge with a rim and even some of the more popular wildcats. The barrels were relieved for the extractor which was usually part of the package. Not cheap but considering the time necessary to do the work, not out of line either. That went downhill shortly after the UK became extremely anal with their firearms laws.
Still, just about anyone can do the work at home. A bit of lathe work may be necessary but that can be done at a local machine shop if you give them proper drawings to work with. None of this is rocket science but it isn't a project for a starter/non finisher. It is however a great learning curve. A lot can be garnered experience wise by doing up a custom Martini. I was lucky because back in the day Marstar brought in a bunch of complete actions without barrels as well as a bunch of parts. They still have some parts. Martinis are great. Everything on them can be made at home other than the receiver. Even the receiver could be made up in a home machine shop with a small milling machine and lathe.
Last edited:
