Barrel swap from Restricted to Restricted. Call CFO?

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serg777

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I'm playing with the idea to shorten the barrel length on a few of my R's. For example, SW revolver (8' to 5'), FX-9 (8' to 4') etc.

All of it is DIY at home project, no gunsmith involved. Obviously, the gun still would remain within its restricted category. Do I inform CFO about the matter? I don't see the barrel length anywhere on my registration papers.

Please, advice.
 
Its not on the cert., but it is in the descriptors in the actual registration. Does it matter? I don't know.
 
Snider shooter said:
Restricted pistol barrels can’t legally be shortened. Call the CFO before you cut them and they will explain it to you.
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There is a difference between shortening the existing barrel and installing a newly manufactured barrel of the shorter length. Former is no-no, latter one is ok as long as the barrel is of non-prohib length still. Apparently, as per conversation with my gunsmith it indeed must be reported. That is the answer on my question.

As for cutting the barrel vs making new one, looks like just another gun law which does not make a lot of sense, since in both cases the gun ends up with the shortened barrel, but its legality depends on how the barrel was made. So when, for example, you are buying the barrel or a whole gun in private sale and you did not witness its production process, there is no way to distinguish one from another as long as the barrel was cut and crowned properly. I find it funny, as it seems the very process of cutting the barrel is illegal, but the resulting standalone product is legal unless proven otherwise.

Hope it helps.
 
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Snider shooter said:
Restricted pistol barrels can’t legally be shortened. Call the CFO before you cut them and they will explain it to you.
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Do you have a reference to legislation that indicates this? My understanding of the restrictions on handguns is that you cannot cut their barrels to below ~105mm. Rifles and shotguns have different rules.
 
#1, You'll won't be questioned or have an issue UNTIL you try to sell. #2, your guns will probably be close to worthless afterwards if done yourself. #3, maybe they already worthless are if we can't sell them? #4, if you keep them above legal length, what exactly are they going to charge you with? devaluing a restricted weapon? #5, is it worth all this hassle?
Cheers
 
Good question. I don't see where a sawed off pistol over 105mm is a problem, unless it used to be a long gun. You do have to phone in barrel length changes on restricteds.
prohibited firearm means
  • (a) a handgun that
    • (i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or
    • (ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,
    but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
  • (b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,
    • (i) is less than 660 mm in length, or
    • (ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,
  • (c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or
  • (d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm; (arme à feu prohibée)
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Shouldn't have a problem with the S&W going from 8" to 5", but the FX9 is a restricted rifle. Existing rifle barrels cannot legally be cut shorter than 18", you can make a new barrel shorter than 18" though.
Regarding changing your registration you can have a verifier send in firearm verification form (RCMP 5547e) with the new barrel length.
There is currently no FRT entry for a 4" FX9 barrel but there is for a 4.5" (114mm).
 
polkey said:
Shouldn't have a problem with the S&W going from 8" to 5", but the FX9 is a restricted rifle. Existing rifle barrels cannot legally be cut shorter than 18", you can make a new barrel shorter than 18" though.
Regarding changing your registration you can have a verifier send in firearm verification form (RCMP 5547e) with the new barrel length.
There is currently no FRT entry for a 4" FX9 barrel but there is for a 4.5" (114mm).
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I'm I correct to understand, swapping for a shorter barrel specifically in handgun is ok without reporting, and that also includes shortening existing barrel as long as it remains longer than 105mm?

As it goes for FX-9, I have seen a complete 4" (or 4.5"?) and 8" uppers available for sale. FX has an AR-15 design. So, it appears that every time when attaching the upper back-and-forth between 4 and 8 on restricted rifle, that event must be reported, correct?
 
serg777 said:
I'm playing with the idea to shorten the barrel length on a few of my R's. For example, SW revolver (8' to 5'), FX-9 (8' to 4') etc.

All of it is DIY at home project, no gunsmith involved. Obviously, the gun still would remain within its restricted category. Do I inform CFO about the matter? I don't see the barrel length anywhere on my registration papers.

Please, advice.
Click to expand...

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serg777 said:
I'm playing with the idea to shorten the barrel length on a few of my R's. For example, SW revolver (8' to 5'), FX-9 (8' to 4') etc. All of it is DIY at home project, no gunsmith involved. Obviously, the gun still would remain within its restricted category. Do I inform CFO about the matter? I don't see the barrel length anywhere on my registration papers. Please, advice.
Click to expand...

To address this question I looked to section 4 of the Firearm Registration Certificates Regulations:

Conditions
4 (1) Subject to section 5, the Registrar shall attach to a registration certificate that is issued in respect of a firearm the condition that the holder of the certificate shall advise the Registrar, within 30 days after the modification, of

(a) any modification to the firearm that results in a change of class of the firearm;

(b) in the case of a firearm registered as a frame or receiver only, any modification that makes it capable of discharging ammunition;

(c) any modification to an altered automatic firearm; and

(d) any modification that results in the firearm ceasing to be a firearm.

(2) Subject to section 5, the Registrar shall attach to a registration certificate that is issued in respect of a firearm the condition that when the type, action, calibre or gauge of the firearm is modified, the holder of the certificate shall advise the Registrar of the modification,

(a) if the modification is intended to be permanent, within 30 days after the modification; and

(b) if the modification is not intended to be permanent but still exists 30 days after it is made, without delay after that period.

SOR/2004-276, s. 4


<https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-201/page-1.html#h-1019122>
Click to expand...

Firearms Registration Certificates Regulations (SOR/98-201)
<https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-201/index.html>
 
Snider shooter said:
Restricted pistol barrels can’t legally be shortened. Call the CFO before you cut them and they will explain it to you.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. _pistol_ barrels can be shortened. If there is no FRN for the new length, they will create a child entry. If you somehow go under 106mm they will refuse to modify the class to prohibited and tell you either to surrender or get the barrel replaced.

In the past they've asked for a verifier report which made this process difficult, but they sometimes accept a over the phone verification with pictures sent to the lab when they get to looking at the application.

What you were thinking of is likely _rifles_ - you are not allowed to _cut_ the barrel under 18"

But to address the original question - if it is only the length that changes - not caliber or classification because of length - you don't have to report. They will raise a fuss if you sell and do what I described above, but it's not like we are selling most of them any more...

Funny thing, if you have a prohibited handgun, you can also cut the barrel of it further... and still do not need to report unless you sell and they have to issue a new certificate.
 
serg777 said:
I'm I correct to understand, swapping for a shorter barrel specifically in handgun is ok without reporting, and that also includes shortening existing barrel as long as it remains longer than 105mm?

As it goes for FX-9, I have seen a complete 4" (or 4.5"?) and 8" uppers available for sale. FX has an AR-15 design. So, it appears that every time when attaching the upper back-and-forth between 4 and 8 on restricted rifle, that event must be reported, correct?
Click to expand...

You have 30 days to report changes. - dan
 
This isn't advice, but more of a story / anecdote. I called the Alberta CFO a few years back to report that I had changed barrels (a factory 11.5" -> factory 16"). The agent on the line told me that they don't care about that type of changes as the status of the rifle hadn't changed. I asked about what was printed on the registration certificate, and they didn't seem very concerned about that in-accuracy.
 
You can cut the pistol barrel as long as you stay restricted length , but as Dan B said report the change.
PS , It's not the CFO that you deal with , it's a firearms Tec in Ottawa, I do have the extension #, but too tired to look for it now.
If you ever sell the gun, which is all F******* now, it will create a hold till fixed, verified , and these days it can be done over the phone with a digital caliper as a rule.
Keep at a common length, if possible.
Problem is fixing the front sight after the chop job. These days that don't matter, but who knows is a couple of years?

Or if you have shorter ones, keep the long barrel and scope it or mount a red dot, which is what I am thinking about , had one on my 1911.
scope is better for long range then the red dot.
 
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Based on comments I can conclude the existing pistol barrels can be cut and it needs to be reported. However not a big deal if do not report the modification until the transferring it to the buyer. But in the process of transfer no authority would request to verify it anyways. So I guess it is possible to pass it onto new owner and let her/him do it. Or new owner might ignore it too. Worst case scenario, even anyhow the authority happen to catch that the actual barrel is less than on the cert - so what, it is still within restricted length and you say the mod has been done yesterday as DIY project, which is not illegal. This is my take from the comments anyways.

However my gunsmith insists the barrel cannot be cut legally. Rather the new one of the shorter length must be installed and cert updated. I think that is correct.
 
He is wrong if it is a restricted barrel, you can cut down to about 107-8mm to have a bit of margin. 4 1/2" is a common one these days.
5 in was common yrs ago
The rifle you can't cut.
Over the yrs I have came across a few that where registered wrong , Pre C68, it did not matter, but it did after.
Not a big deal, if we ever can sell, trade, the system will show the original length, and if not corrected , the new transfer will say the same, with a incorrect length.
if it was checked, then it would have to be updated/ verified. If cut to 4 inch, then it is gone and scrap iron.
Find a different gunsmith.
 
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