Barrel torque and headspace

Grizzlypeg

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Here I ponder the obscure while looking out my window at a cold snowy day.

On a rifle like a Rem 700, how is headspace affected by barrel torque? I see two competing mechanical changes occurring as a barrel is tightened. The chamber moves closer to the bolt face, decreasing headspace, while at the same time, the chamber is potentially lengthened by the stretch inducing torque. So which one wins out?
 
There is next to no measureable stretching of the receiver IMHO.

When the barrel's shoulder is torqued against the face of the receiver, usually the threads on both pieces slightly deform as they are the weakest areas on both components.

If you decide to do a build and are worried, use a barrel nut to set headspace, the same way Savage and now other manufacturers have gone to, but not for the reasons you suggest.
 
Was just curious if there were changes in head space at 20, 60 and 100 ft-lbs.

Yes...

If you can feel the bolt close on a go gauge at 20 foot pounds, it most likely will not close at 100 foot pounds... but once at 100 not much difference at 125.

100 foot pounds is just fine.
 
On my several switch Bbl 700's,40X's & Barnard P & S's receivers...none of the Bbls are torqued.

I spin the Bbl into the receiver,(2 hands) the last 1/16th of a turn the barrel is snapped/rotated into place.
Removal is by wrapping a 3x5 card around the Bbl & installing a 1" fabric strap wrench that is bumped w/ the heel of my hand to break the Bbl shoulder to receiver face fit, spin the Bbl tenon out of said receiver.DONE.
 
On my several switch Bbl 700's,40X's & Barnard P & S's receivers...none of the Bbls are torqued.

I spin the Bbl into the receiver,(2 hands) the last 1/16th of a turn the barrel is snapped/rotated into place.
Removal is by wrapping a 3x5 card around the Bbl & installing a 1" fabric strap wrench that is bumped w/ the heel of my hand to break the Bbl shoulder to receiver face fit, spin the Bbl tenon out of said receiver.DONE.

What assortment of cartridges do you shoot from those guns?
 
On my several switch Bbl 700's,40X's & Barnard P & S's receivers...none of the Bbls are torqued.

I spin the Bbl into the receiver,(2 hands) the last 1/16th of a turn the barrel is snapped/rotated into place.
Removal is by wrapping a 3x5 card around the Bbl & installing a 1" fabric strap wrench that is bumped w/ the heel of my hand to break the Bbl shoulder to receiver face fit, spin the Bbl tenon out of said receiver.DONE.

I have an original Rem RB ( 1870's) that I change the barrels on same as yours, spin them on until they go "thunk" at the last two handed twist and then shoot them. One barrel is a new steel 45-70 and the other is the original European chambering of 12.?? something or other that has been re-worked at the rim area to accept 50-70 brass...neither one has ever come loose during firing.
 
Well, I guess if I get really bored some day, I can insert a headspace gauge, try it, and make some measurements. I of course have always only made my final check of headspace with the barrel set to the installed torque, but am curious how much change occurs as its tightened. All the barrels I have chambered, I aim for go plus .001 upon tightening. The final cutting with the reamer, I always stop when its where I want it, checked afterwards by simply hand tightening the receiver onto the barrel while its in the chuck of the lathe.
 
Torque vs stretch is a subject that's always interested me. I Drag raced for 20+ years, did my own engine work, got into buying aftermarket connecting rod bolts. ARP was the supplier - they had several tech articles (which I found quite interesting) on their web site. (going from memory here) One article suggested that measuring stretch of the bolt was a superior method for installing rod bolts. Explained that torque to turn a fastener is affected by surface finish of the threads plus any shoulders, fit of male to female threads and lubrication. They sold a rod bolt stretch gauge that included a dial indicator to measure the stretch in thousandths. My particular application used a 7/16" fine thread fastener, their instructions recommended a stretch of .005 ~ .006". claimed that a fastener is strongest at its elastic limit (if you go past, it won't return to its original length, and you should replace it). It takes ~ 95 ft lbs to stretch a high tensile 7/16" rod bolt .0055". They also recognized that not everyone would use a stretch gauge and included a chart of recommended torque values based on lubrication. Highest recommended torque values were for bolts lubed with 30 wt engine oil, lowest were for those lubed with their "moly lube" (assumed equal stretch). They also recommended that a fastener be brought up to torque or stretch at least 3 times because there is always a certain amount of burnishing of the (new) threads together, especially on the first 2 or 3 times.
Sorry for rambling.
So, yes indeed, threads on a barrel will stretch the end of the barrel, especially @ 100 ft lbs or more but hard to measure until you get to the higher values.
But I'm with those suggesting much lower torque values, I install mine just "snug" - probably not more than 35 ft. lbs. Never had one come loose. If you think about it, a right-hand twist barrel would tend to tighten itself if anything.
 
On my several switch Bbl 700's,40X's & Barnard P & S's receivers...none of the Bbls are torqued.

I spin the Bbl into the receiver,(2 hands) the last 1/16th of a turn the barrel is snapped/rotated into place.
Removal is by wrapping a 3x5 card around the Bbl & installing a 1" fabric strap wrench that is bumped w/ the heel of my hand to break the Bbl shoulder to receiver face fit, spin the Bbl tenon out of said receiver.DONE.

Yep, I have a QD barrel conversion that I hand tighten the barrels into. It works just fine. I'm running 17 Fireball and 308 Win in the same action. ;)
 
What assortment of cartridges do you shoot from those guns?

Multiple chamberings.
Multiple.378".440",.473",.532"breech face bolts.

All receiver/bolt lugs & breech dimensions w/in .001"


Most...not all, Match platforms are set up w/out the use of a sandwiched recoil lug between Bbl & receiver.
 
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