I've recently found a side by side Tobin Arms 12 gauge in my Great Grandfather's basement. There is no serial number I can find, all I can find is " Tobin Arms, Woodstock Ontario". I'm just wondering more about the shotgun and if there is any value to it?
Basement find - Tobin Arms
- Thread starter islandj
- Start date
I thought those folks were adding more value to those old singles, whew glad I didn't jump on the band wagon.
A friend of mine has one he refinished/reblued. He paid about $350 for it in original state, likely worth $500-$800 now depending on the buyer
A Brief History lifted off of ShotgunWorld as I was looking for pics of my friends rust bluing thread. Still looking for it
Frank Major Tobin was born in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, on January 24, 1862. As a young man he shipped out on a whaler, but the sea did not prove to be a lasting calling. He was drawn to the American west, and there he met and married his wife Anna, who was also born in Canada, in August 1868. Frank and Anna’s first child was born in Nebraska in March 1892. The next two children were born in Illinois. By 1897 Frank was in Norwich, Connecticut, working as a sales agent for W.H. Davenport Firearms Company. By 1901 he had a similar position with Hopkins & Allen Arms Company. Somehow when he was on the road for these Norwich companies he acquired the rights to Patent No. 498,043 for a breech Loading Firearm, granted May 23, 1893, to C.M. Wollam of San Francisco, California. The Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company of Norwich, Connecticut was incorporated in 1903 with F.M. Tobin as president, A.L. Potter as vice-president, and B.H. Palmer as secretary-treasurer. The company purchased a site formerly occupied by a grist mill, which was rebuilt and new buildings added, and commenced production of a hammerless double barrel shotgun based on Wollam’s patent. All the Tobin guns I’ve examined carry the stamp on the watertable “Pat’d May 23-93 and Patents Pending.” The gun was marketed as the Tobin Simplex Gun. The first guns were shipped in September 1904. The Tobin Simplex Gun was produced in a variety of grades from $30 to $200, and with options of either automatic ejectors or a single-selective trigger for $20, or both for $40. On the highest grade internal parts were gold plated and ejectors or the single-selective trigger were each $25 extra. At the same time ejectors were $5 extra on a Remington. The lower grade guns used Trojan Nitro Steel barrels, the middle grades Fluid Steel Krupp Essen barrels, and the highest grades offered the choice of Fluid Steel Krupp Essen or DeMoya Fluid Steel. Production of guns in 12- and 16-gauge continued in Norwich into 1909, and the generally accepted figure is that 11,089 hammerless doubles were produced in Norwich.
Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company, Limited, was incorporated on August 9, 1909, with its principle place of business stated as Woodstock, Ontario, Canada. Again the company produced a line of Tobin Simplex Guns in 12- and 16-gauge and a variety of grades from $25 to $250. In addition a hammer double using the same frame and bolting as the hammerless was added to the line at $20, and a simple .22 caliber single shot Boy Scout Rifle was added to the line of shotguns at $5. Advertising by Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company, Ltd. continued into 1916, but by then at least part of the factory had been taken over by the Arnold Thompson Tool Company. The generally accepted serial number range for hammerless doubles was 11,090 to 18,395. Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company, Ltd. is not listed in the Woodstock City Directories after 1916, and its charter was surrendered to the Provincial Secretary and Registrar on December 19, 1921. Frank Major Tobin lived the rest of his life in Woodstock. For many years he was secretary of the Canadian Stove Manufacturers Association. He was also involved in the marketing of a collapsible boat and early experiments with milk cartons. Frank died October 10, 1939.
A local gunsmith who had worked for the company, Gladstone Blake Crandall, bought the remains of Tobin Arms, and for many years billed himself as “Manufacturer of Tobin Guns (Successor to Tobin Arms Co.).” Crandall is believed to have assembled 551 Tobin Guns from parts, some as late as 1951. Crandall serial numbers reportedly range from 18,976 to 19,526. Some of these guns are quite good and others leave a lot to be desired. Some of the last were fitted with coil springs mounted on a cocking rod instead of the floating V-spring, the main feature of Wollam’s design. Crandall is more noted as a riflemaker and is mentioned several times in Charles Landis’ book Twenty-Two Calibre Varmint Rifles. After he retired, great quantities of Tobin parts were hauled to the dump and many a local lad collected enough to assemble a gun, but few ever did.
G.B. Crandall was granted U.S. Patent No. 862,717 on August 6, 1907, for a rifle sight. He filed application for the patent on November 13, 1906. His residence was listed as Cherry Valley, County of Prince Edward, Ontario.
Crandall is believed to have assembled 551 Tobin Guns from parts, some as late as 1951. Crandall serial numbers reportedly range from 18,976 to 19,526. Some of these guns are quite good and others leave a lot to be desired. Some of the last were fitted with coil springs mounted on a cocking rod instead of the floating V-spring, the main feature of Wollam’s design. Crandall is more noted as a riflemaker and is mentioned several times in Charles Landis’ book Twenty-Two Calibre Varmint Rifles. After he retired, great quantities of Tobin parts were hauled to the dump and many a local lad collected enough to assemble a gun, but few ever did.
About DeMoya
One of the Tobin catalogs or period ads states that the entire production of De Moya steel barrels had been spoken for by the Tobin company.
De Moya had an address in Liege. He had registered several trade names Acier De Moya, De Moya Fluid Steel & De Moya Fluss Stahl.
Jose De Moya, 297 rue St. Gilles, 1904.
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html
Who else he sold to or how long he was in business in Liege, I do not know. He filed a patent with the US Patent office in which he claims to live in Paris in 1905. The patent was granted in 1907.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=mRJRAAA...1&ct=result
An interesting patent. Where he is producing steel is an interesting question.
This is Frank Tobin's personal gun.
A bit more about Tobin. http://www.members.shaw.ca/sharptail/Tobin.html
_________________
Pete
Damascus-Barrels
Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/vie...51168&hilit=tobin+arms#p1451168#ixzz1DXvRtOjm
A Brief History lifted off of ShotgunWorld as I was looking for pics of my friends rust bluing thread. Still looking for it
Frank Major Tobin was born in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, on January 24, 1862. As a young man he shipped out on a whaler, but the sea did not prove to be a lasting calling. He was drawn to the American west, and there he met and married his wife Anna, who was also born in Canada, in August 1868. Frank and Anna’s first child was born in Nebraska in March 1892. The next two children were born in Illinois. By 1897 Frank was in Norwich, Connecticut, working as a sales agent for W.H. Davenport Firearms Company. By 1901 he had a similar position with Hopkins & Allen Arms Company. Somehow when he was on the road for these Norwich companies he acquired the rights to Patent No. 498,043 for a breech Loading Firearm, granted May 23, 1893, to C.M. Wollam of San Francisco, California. The Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company of Norwich, Connecticut was incorporated in 1903 with F.M. Tobin as president, A.L. Potter as vice-president, and B.H. Palmer as secretary-treasurer. The company purchased a site formerly occupied by a grist mill, which was rebuilt and new buildings added, and commenced production of a hammerless double barrel shotgun based on Wollam’s patent. All the Tobin guns I’ve examined carry the stamp on the watertable “Pat’d May 23-93 and Patents Pending.” The gun was marketed as the Tobin Simplex Gun. The first guns were shipped in September 1904. The Tobin Simplex Gun was produced in a variety of grades from $30 to $200, and with options of either automatic ejectors or a single-selective trigger for $20, or both for $40. On the highest grade internal parts were gold plated and ejectors or the single-selective trigger were each $25 extra. At the same time ejectors were $5 extra on a Remington. The lower grade guns used Trojan Nitro Steel barrels, the middle grades Fluid Steel Krupp Essen barrels, and the highest grades offered the choice of Fluid Steel Krupp Essen or DeMoya Fluid Steel. Production of guns in 12- and 16-gauge continued in Norwich into 1909, and the generally accepted figure is that 11,089 hammerless doubles were produced in Norwich.
Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company, Limited, was incorporated on August 9, 1909, with its principle place of business stated as Woodstock, Ontario, Canada. Again the company produced a line of Tobin Simplex Guns in 12- and 16-gauge and a variety of grades from $25 to $250. In addition a hammer double using the same frame and bolting as the hammerless was added to the line at $20, and a simple .22 caliber single shot Boy Scout Rifle was added to the line of shotguns at $5. Advertising by Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company, Ltd. continued into 1916, but by then at least part of the factory had been taken over by the Arnold Thompson Tool Company. The generally accepted serial number range for hammerless doubles was 11,090 to 18,395. Tobin Arms Manufacturing Company, Ltd. is not listed in the Woodstock City Directories after 1916, and its charter was surrendered to the Provincial Secretary and Registrar on December 19, 1921. Frank Major Tobin lived the rest of his life in Woodstock. For many years he was secretary of the Canadian Stove Manufacturers Association. He was also involved in the marketing of a collapsible boat and early experiments with milk cartons. Frank died October 10, 1939.
A local gunsmith who had worked for the company, Gladstone Blake Crandall, bought the remains of Tobin Arms, and for many years billed himself as “Manufacturer of Tobin Guns (Successor to Tobin Arms Co.).” Crandall is believed to have assembled 551 Tobin Guns from parts, some as late as 1951. Crandall serial numbers reportedly range from 18,976 to 19,526. Some of these guns are quite good and others leave a lot to be desired. Some of the last were fitted with coil springs mounted on a cocking rod instead of the floating V-spring, the main feature of Wollam’s design. Crandall is more noted as a riflemaker and is mentioned several times in Charles Landis’ book Twenty-Two Calibre Varmint Rifles. After he retired, great quantities of Tobin parts were hauled to the dump and many a local lad collected enough to assemble a gun, but few ever did.
G.B. Crandall was granted U.S. Patent No. 862,717 on August 6, 1907, for a rifle sight. He filed application for the patent on November 13, 1906. His residence was listed as Cherry Valley, County of Prince Edward, Ontario.
Crandall is believed to have assembled 551 Tobin Guns from parts, some as late as 1951. Crandall serial numbers reportedly range from 18,976 to 19,526. Some of these guns are quite good and others leave a lot to be desired. Some of the last were fitted with coil springs mounted on a cocking rod instead of the floating V-spring, the main feature of Wollam’s design. Crandall is more noted as a riflemaker and is mentioned several times in Charles Landis’ book Twenty-Two Calibre Varmint Rifles. After he retired, great quantities of Tobin parts were hauled to the dump and many a local lad collected enough to assemble a gun, but few ever did.
About DeMoya
One of the Tobin catalogs or period ads states that the entire production of De Moya steel barrels had been spoken for by the Tobin company.
De Moya had an address in Liege. He had registered several trade names Acier De Moya, De Moya Fluid Steel & De Moya Fluss Stahl.
Jose De Moya, 297 rue St. Gilles, 1904.
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html
Who else he sold to or how long he was in business in Liege, I do not know. He filed a patent with the US Patent office in which he claims to live in Paris in 1905. The patent was granted in 1907.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=mRJRAAA...1&ct=result
An interesting patent. Where he is producing steel is an interesting question.
This is Frank Tobin's personal gun.
A bit more about Tobin. http://www.members.shaw.ca/sharptail/Tobin.html
_________________
Pete
Damascus-Barrels
Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/vie...51168&hilit=tobin+arms#p1451168#ixzz1DXvRtOjm
Here's a copy of his rust bluing thread and after pics
Oringinally posted by "Dilly" who is a member here as well
"Here is a thread for all you guys who have wanted to try rust bluing at home or have an older SxS with worn old barrels. I obtained some "classic rust blue" from Brownells and followed the instructions and here is my story.
I started with a gun that needed some TLC but was not too far gone. It is a 12ga Tobin Arms SxS made in Woodstock Ontario Canada. I refinished the wood back in the winter and turned my attention to the barrels which had worn spots where surface rust must have attacked the bluing.
There were no pits but rather discolouration...
After removing all the bluing by sanding the barrels with 320 grit emery cloth, I degreased the bores and swabbed them liberally with polyurethane. Then I boiled the lot in water and TSP then in water again.
I was careful not to touch the barrels from this point on...I swabbed on the stuff from Brownells very carefully and conservatively then hung them in a "damp box" I borrowed from a gunsmith. Its a basic thing with some bulbs and a water tray and a door that seals tight.
After about 2 hours of rusting time, the barrels come out looking like this....to be honest, I was a little nervous when I saw this...
Back into the water for 30 mins on a slow boil and you can see the rust turn black before your eyes. When it comes out, it goes a velvety blue black colour.
This coating gets "carded" off by using superfine steel wool and the steel below is just a bit darker every time. I did a total of 6 passes and it took me
a week but this is what resulted.
I found this project very rewarding and not that difficult to do. It sure made the old Tobin look good! Now...about those faded case colours..... "
The "After" Pics
Oringinally posted by "Dilly" who is a member here as well
"Here is a thread for all you guys who have wanted to try rust bluing at home or have an older SxS with worn old barrels. I obtained some "classic rust blue" from Brownells and followed the instructions and here is my story.
I started with a gun that needed some TLC but was not too far gone. It is a 12ga Tobin Arms SxS made in Woodstock Ontario Canada. I refinished the wood back in the winter and turned my attention to the barrels which had worn spots where surface rust must have attacked the bluing.
There were no pits but rather discolouration...
After removing all the bluing by sanding the barrels with 320 grit emery cloth, I degreased the bores and swabbed them liberally with polyurethane. Then I boiled the lot in water and TSP then in water again.
I was careful not to touch the barrels from this point on...I swabbed on the stuff from Brownells very carefully and conservatively then hung them in a "damp box" I borrowed from a gunsmith. Its a basic thing with some bulbs and a water tray and a door that seals tight.
After about 2 hours of rusting time, the barrels come out looking like this....to be honest, I was a little nervous when I saw this...
Back into the water for 30 mins on a slow boil and you can see the rust turn black before your eyes. When it comes out, it goes a velvety blue black colour.
This coating gets "carded" off by using superfine steel wool and the steel below is just a bit darker every time. I did a total of 6 passes and it took me
a week but this is what resulted.
I found this project very rewarding and not that difficult to do. It sure made the old Tobin look good! Now...about those faded case colours..... "
The "After" Pics
- Location
- The Police State: Ontario
More Tobin trivia for those interested:
The Woodstock "Tobin" factory is still standing, and today is occupied by Standard Tube Corporation.
The Woodstock "Tobin" factory is still standing, and today is occupied by Standard Tube Corporation.
I have a Woodstock Tobin. The hammer in on the lower barrel is a bit worn. The firing pin is a one piece affair that is part of a large hammer assembly. I have a machinist that will drill and tap the hammer to screw in a new firing pin. I will check on the gun this weekend and get back.
Henry
BTW, nice job on the refinish!
Henry
BTW, nice job on the refinish!
Henry, that gun has some serious problems. There isn't supposed to be a lower barrel !
Sharptail
There is no serial number I can find, all I can find is " Tobin Arms, Woodstock Ontario".
I have two Tobin doubles. They both have serial numbers. Take the barrels off and you may find the #?
One of mine was my Dad's, well used and comes with a hand made fore-end, wood and metal both. He bought the shotgun from a local blacksmith who made the fore-end. The old girl kicks like a mule.
The other one I tried to sell on the EE, no serious biters. Oh well, it keeps company for the other one!!
I have two Tobin doubles. They both have serial numbers. Take the barrels off and you may find the #?
One of mine was my Dad's, well used and comes with a hand made fore-end, wood and metal both. He bought the shotgun from a local blacksmith who made the fore-end. The old girl kicks like a mule.
The other one I tried to sell on the EE, no serious biters. Oh well, it keeps company for the other one!!
Be2man now those barrels look like a proffesional did them! there great! I think I will give this a try for my old Spanish 3"10 gage box lock, the barrels could use a nice rust bluing! and I have a dry box for the stock work I do that I can convert for this purpose!Now all you have to do is find someone in Canada to caseharden the finish on that nice Tobin, cheers Dale Z!
