Bashing the belt

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csquared76

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Hello all! I've got a semi-custom .300 win mag that I dearly love to shoot. It shoots flat, accurate, and deadly. I'm also somewhat OCD. I am growing to dislike the belt. Beside the usual headspacing issues, I think the belt detracts from the otherwise attractive nature of that long case. Any suggestions on a re-barrel? Im looking for The power and accuracy of the .300 win mag, without sacrificing mag capacity with a fat RUM or the ability to throw heavy bullets with a short mag. EUROPEAN calibers maybe? 8x68s? Any ideas? Wildcats are perfectly acceptable as I reload anyway.
 
Yet another one sucked into the hype vortex ......

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The cheapest thing to do would be turn all the belts off your brass and continue loading with your present dies... the headspace is set in the rifle from the factory - you control the amount of cartridge head clearance when you reload fired brass...
 
Noooo.....more "belts are bad" propaganda....

If the OP just hates the look of the belt then guntech's advice is best.

Personally I've been reloading belted magnums for about 25 years and I have no freakin' idea why anyone has a problem with them. I mean, I've read about all the supposed issues that can happen with belted magnums, but I've never seen any of it; ever.
 
Crap, crap and more crap!
Most of the rifle manufactures head space on the shoulder of short mags anyway due to their inability to agree on the dimensions from rim to forward belt.
The exceptions are 458 Win , 458 Lott, 450 Marlin and of course the great originals 375 H&H or 300 H&H due to the amount of body taper on these two.
If there is an issue with the 300 Win, it is bullet seating. You can increase the OAL and seat bullets considerably closer to the lands if your magazine will allow it.
The short neck issues are red herrings as well.
Just my $0.02.
 
I cant disagree with anything that has been said. Proper reloading technique will mitigate nearly all possible problems with belted cases. I was actually hoping to spark a discussion on comparable calibers minus the belt. Being a novice reloader, what extra equipment would I need to turn the necks down?
 
Personally,I am considerably more interested in the performance of the round than what it looks like.I've owned and loaded for any number of belted mags some chamberings I liked,some went down the road.The belt made no difference to me at all.At present my most accurate rifle is a 6.5 Rem Mag(belted),and as others have said headspace is off the shoulder,no different from any other round I load for.If you don't like the looks of the belted .300WM,maybe try the .300WSM which has similiar peformance.Of course you may find the short,fat case to be just as unappealing to your eye as the belt on the .300WMThey take some getting used to,I switched from .300WM to .300WSM years ago just for SAG!. Mur
 
You might as well just buy another rifle and leave the 300WM as is. By the time you rebarrel, buy dies and brass, you're well on the way to another rifle in cost.
 
True. Performance is of paramount importance. I will be looking at a re-barrel in the not too distant future anyways if I can continue to shoot at the rate I am accustomed to. I also have a 6.5x55 bjai-I LOVE the looks of that round loaded with long 140 grain bergers...-and it just outright shoots! Thus my original question. Any body out there with experience with something like the 8x68s, or some other beltless magnum caliber of good performance and reputation. Popularity means precisely zero to me. It jusy has to make me happy...which is why we have so many cartridges to choose from today...
 
If aesthetics is what is making you ill, try the 30-06. Hand loading can get you surprisingly close to the 300 Mag. Plus you will get four rounds under the bolt and without question, the deer do not complain.
Most of the difference between these cartridges exist in our minds anyway.
 
As you suggested already the 8x68S would work well with the rifle you have, this is the European version of the 8mm Rem mag, I also really want one!! Brass and loaded ammo is really only Norma that I know of,would be not that hard to get in Canada!
I also have a 300 WM and never had a problem with it ever?

For the 8mm guys we should get a smal run of CZ 550 Magnums built in 8X68S for Canada! Am I the only one other than the guy who started this thread like this cartridge? Good luck on your quest to find a beltless cartridge, have fun!
ceers Dale Z!
 
guntech said:
Not in the world I live in... Hand load each cartridge to accepted pressures ... = a big difference. But you can down load the 300 Mag to 30-06 levels.
Click to expand...

Not in my world either. I see a difference of 400 fps with 180s. Sometimes more.

O.P.;
If you want a belt-less case I'd reconsider the .300 RUM. Most of my .300 Wins hold 3 down, and only one holds 4 down. My one and only Ultramag holds four down so if mag capacity is a deciding factor there may not be any difference.
 
i find it hard to believe they would make the shoulder headspace longer just so it could headspace on the belt. it doesnt make sense im sure my belted cartridge chamber is cut to fit the round like any other one i like belts if only because i dislike shortmags.
 
I have designed and built a whole series on the 8X68 case including a 7mm version, a 30 cal version and on up. My reamer is 7X68 imp 30 deg with a detachable pilot and I have neck and throaters up to 375. The case capacity is absolutely identical to the 300 WM. I hunted a bit with the 7X68 imp in Texas and was driving 160s at 3400 fps from a 25" barrel. Devastating on light game. I was going to order a 6.5X68 imp reamer but with the cost of RWS 8X68 brass compared to 300 WM brass, it's just not rational. If you really want to try one I could chamber you up one and I have 300 new RWS brass for a meager $3.00 each.
I was just recently going to build a 9.3X68 imp but my buddy was selling his Sako AV in 9.3X300 WM so I bought that instead.
The 30 deg imp case is really a great looking case, positively ###y and you can reload it with 300 WSM dies in a pinch. I just reamed my 300 WM sizer die out to a 30 deg shoulder and use them. I'm not shooting for bench accuracy but sub moa was attained with both the 7 and 30 cal. I do believe Huntington has the dimensions if not you can send them 3 fired cases and they will make you a set of custom dies, but they can't send you back your brass!!!!
 
From a practical standpoint, most wildcats are a waste of time these days. Especially if you are using hard to get brass or brass that must undergo several steps of forming. If you want no belt and more horsepower than the 300WM, get a 300RUM. If you want no belt and about the same performance as a 300WM, get a 300WSM.

The belt on most belted cartridges is pointless, but that doesn't mean they don't work just fine. Your desire isn't practical so maybe you don't care about the lack of practicability with wildcats. If that is the case, get a 300-375 Ruger. Brass is easy to find and not too expensive, necking down is easily accomplished and no belt.
 
the 30 x 68 would be the way to go. Ron Propp built a few wildcats on the 8x68 case years ago and if i'm not mistaken Dave Henry got most of his reamers. He also had a lot of gibbs reamers.
 
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