Basic polishing set up

timcada

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Hi,

I recently picked up an SD9ve from the awesome sale at Bullseye. I also got the Mcarbo trigger kit for it as well. Watching the Mcarbo installation video, he mentions polishing some parts while you have the gun apart.

Right now I have basically nothing in terms of polishing, what should i get and where from?

I'm well aware how much damage you can do with a wrong set up or using a dremel, that is why I'm asking.

Thanks in advance
 
An outfit called Boride, makes a whackload of different abrasive sticks from very coarse to very fine, mostly aimed at the tool and die makers. They are a couple bucks each, and you can pick and choose what you might want.

Gesswein makes or sells files and abrasives for watchmakers and jewellers. Much more money, but they stock various ruby files that are good for a final polish.

In either case, you will want to sort out some sort of jig to use the abrasives in, so as to not mangle the surfaces with freehand irregularities. At least, for such things as sears etc.

Another option is to make your own laps. I have used wet or dry sandpaper, super glued to a flat surface, also copper laps with diamond grit embedded in them.
For sandpaper, go to a place that does autobody supplies and they will have far finer paper than the usual 600 grit. Diamond paste is cheap off ebay. Use an old bearing to roll over the surface to embed the grit in to the copper.

For inside narrow crevices like, say slide rails, you can form fit a piece of wood to the groove, add some grit to that and work it back and forth. This will smooth off the minor surface imperfections, without moving a bunch of metal. Buffing compound works, as does diamond paste.
 
Trevj,
Sounds like you’ve done a lot of this type of work. How about a sticky on such .... how to etc.
My background is fiberglass, so a lot of sanding polishing . Your right on the auto paint supply store, some great wet/dry papers and a lot of different rubbing compounds, Norton’s makes , what they call black ice rubbing compound, 3 stage compound, with the highest number being in the 3000-4000 grid range, there is also valve rubbing compound for the big jobs( courser) It all comes down to what works and experience.... the more you do it....the better you get at it.... or at least thats the way we hope it goes. Lol just remember it’s alway better to start with a finer rubbing compound and step back down to a course one if it isn’t doing the job. Too course of a paper or compound , means a lot more buffing to remove the small scratches from the course stuff.
Cheers
Brian
 
A pile of great advice from various members. Look at Lee Valley for a great variety of sharpening options. PSA backed paper can be used to produce mirror finishes and works extremely quick and can be custom made to suit almost any requirement. Jewellers rouge is also good for a lot of applications. Diamond slips and stones for wood carving and turning also can be quite handy.
 
Yeah, done a little bit. LOL!

Used to do a lot of shiny things as retirement gifts and the like, and learned a LOT about getting a high polish and maintaining a flat surface so you got a clean reflection, rather than a funhouse mirror effect.

I almost always tried to start with way too fine a grit initially, as that gave me a sense of how far down the grits I needed to go, so as to avoid just what you are saying, having to remove far too much material, which makes for more work, and can change the dimensions on critical stuff.

Through the years, I have used about everything from hardened steel burnishing tools (which work harden the surface while smoothing) through diamond grit on a paper lap for polishing up an edge.

Aircraft supply outfits like Aircraft Spruce and Specialty, usually carry MicroMesh kits and the supplies needed to renew. They were designed to be an all in one kit for polishing scratches out of aircraft windows, and they work pretty well, IIRC, the grits in the kits go up to 12,000 grit. Not super for all purposes, as the abrasive sheets supplied have a wee bit of thickness to them that can and sometimes will, compress, making it harder to get a clean surface on something like an edge. But for pretty, vs. accuracy, it's hard to beat.

3M makes some plastic based abrasive sheets that are worth a look as well, Lee Valley Tools sells a couple of them, as well as, IIRC, some Diamond grit sheets too. Not super expensive, at around $5 a sheet, sized in Microns, finest being around .5 micron grit, which is pretty fine.
The plastic backed abrasives are easy to cut into little strips so they can be glued on to a suitable backing to use as a micro sized custom file.

Almost every abrasive paper will work better wet than dry, on stuff that does not rust easily, a bit of warm water with a drop of soap in it works well, very light weight oil works too. WD40, works a treat, you just have to wipe your stuff down after an put some real oil on, or you get rust, though.

Really, I have found that using a comfortably solid backing on the abrasive sheet made the most difference for me. I used a lot of offcuts of plexiglass sheet as sanding blocks, and they helped the surfaces stay pretty flat.
 
Alright, another two-bits worth.

If you ARE going for pretty, not so much accurate planar or specific dimension surfaces, you will be hard pressed to not find a Cratex or Cratex style rubberized abrasive, really handy. Another on that started out with the tool and die, and mold makers, I think, but the Jewellery makers took one look and said "WANT!"

They come in many shapes, sizes and hardness, and in many different grits, they tend to wear pretty quickly if you get heavy handed, but it can mean seconds, cleaning off, say, file marks on file-worked knife blades, instead of minutes to hours with various grits wrapped around a stick. A quick search around the interwebs will get you an idea of what is out there.

3M, originally known as Minnesota Mining and Machine, makes a rubberized wheel that will go on your bench grinder that will allow you to de-burr the edges of aluminum and other non-ferrous materials that are usually really hazardous to have near a grinder. Again, a heavy handed guy can eat through a $50 wheel in a couple minutes, but someone that takes care, and uses a light touch, can get a pretty good life out of the stuff. These wheels can be used to blend really nice looking fillets, out of some pretty bad welding jobs, say, on a bolt handle or milsurp sporterization. They leave a passable enough finish that I have seen parts go straight in to the bluing from the wheel, after a degrease. At worst, they take a little shot on a buffing wheel.

Felt and cloth buffs for the Dremel, or it's bigger badder cousin, the Foredom tool, can be really handy. Again, a heavy hand can ruin a lot of them quick, and if you are really heavy handed, you can screw up your own work if the felt explodes and you run the mandrel across the work. It is best, as always, to start with a lighter touch, and go harder, rather than to go hard from the start and try to fix the mess later! You could probably write a volume about buffing wheels alone, but in my experiences, it boils down to watching what it does, and fixing what it's doing wrong. If it leaves great crusty smears of compound on the work, you have way too much compound. If the stitching is breaking loose and walloping your work, stop the wheel and cut back the loose ends, and so on.

My first experiences polishing, was working after my day job hours, in the back of a bike shop polishing mostly British Bike parts. I learned a LOT about the differences between the various grades of Jewellers Rouge, as it is not, by any means, all the same. Typically the product line will run dark for coarse and gritty, to lighter, all the way to white, for the finest grit available. Along the lines of Black, Red, Green, White. But not always. You gotta read the frikken instructions. There are grease-less grits out there that require melting your 'glue' on to the buffing wheel, then using friction to melt that so it holds some of the actual abrasives. But most of the polishing compounds readily available are greasy blocks or sticks that you are supposed to wipe lightly across the spinning buffing wheel, rather than trying to get the thing to melt a 1/4 inch deep in to the wheel.

When working with a buffing wheel, on a bench grinder style set-up, it pays to take care that you are applying the contact with the part, below center of the wheel and with the face you are polishing, at a very small angle, so as to avoid it digging in. Buffers are notorious for grabbing the work and flinging it. High speed contact with the wall, is NOT a great way to get a nice finish! BTDT!

These days when I do power buffing with a wheel, I still use an old furnace fan, 1725 RPM motor that I scrounged up MANY years ago, that has a mandrel on it I bought a C-Tire, and a buffing wheel from Busy Bee tools. Works for me. Low enough torque that if I get caught up I can actually stall out the motor, and it will stop, if I press too hard, same, it stops turning and restarts when I let up the pressure.

And as a last note on power buffing. It's a filthy dirty process, you spray powdered buffing wheel, powdered metal, and whatever binders are in the polish, everywhere. Domestic Harmony is best achieved without black, greasy hand and foot prints in the house. :)
Best done away from the stuff you want to stay clean!
 
Came here to suggest Lee Valley for abrasive films and a 1/4" sheet of glass for a flat backer to keep flat parts flat. I use these to sharpen my straight razor and some of my better knives, and they can turn a mean polish with careful application of patience and light touch.

Instead I was reminded of the joy that is always having more to learn.

Thanks Trevj!
 
An outfit called Boride, makes a whackload of different abrasive sticks from very coarse to very fine, mostly aimed at the tool and die makers. They are a couple bucks each, and you can pick and choose what you might want.

Gesswein makes or sells files and abrasives for watchmakers and jewellers. Much more money, but they stock various ruby files that are good for a final polish.

In either case, you will want to sort out some sort of jig to use the abrasives in, so as to not mangle the surfaces with freehand irregularities. At least, for such things as sears etc.

Another option is to make your own laps. I have used wet or dry sandpaper, super glued to a flat surface, also copper laps with diamond grit embedded in them.
For sandpaper, go to a place that does autobody supplies and they will have far finer paper than the usual 600 grit. Diamond paste is cheap off ebay. Use an old bearing to roll over the surface to embed the grit in to the copper.

For inside narrow crevices like, say slide rails, you can form fit a piece of wood to the groove, add some grit to that and work it back and forth. This will smooth off the minor surface imperfections, without moving a bunch of metal. Buffing compound works, as does diamond paste.

TrevJ is telling it like it is.

Stay completely away from motorized rotary or any other power tools with abrasive wheels or belts for such jobs.

All you're going to be doing is removing a few thousanths at most from the surfaces you want to polish.

A few minutes with the stones mentioned in TrevJ's post will get the faces to a high mirror polish easily.

The nice thing about hand polishing/stoning is that it's really easy to stop before you go to far.
 
TrevJ is telling it like it is.

Stay completely away from motorized rotary or any other power tools with abrasive wheels or belts for such jobs.

All you're going to be doing is removing a few thousandths at most from the surfaces you want to polish.

A few minutes with the stones mentioned in TrevJ's post will get the faces to a high mirror polish easily.

The nice thing about hand polishing/stoning is that it's really easy to stop before you go to far.

The nice thing, as I see it, is that it really is HARD to go too far, providing that you are actually paying attention to what is happening on your part. It's REALLY HARD to go too far, if you start out way finer grit than you think you should. Experience counts a lot, but you soon learn that you don't have to go all the way to the coarsest grit, many times. Which is sorta the idea behind starting out finer than you think you need.

And much of the time, the polishing does not so much 'show' as 'feel'! It take very little to change a rough looking surface in to one that slides really well. The guys that scrape machine tool slide ways in to order once worn, are really aware of this. You can go in like a monster and take off a lot of material, and you will eventually get the job up to snuff, or you can sneak up on it with the minimum amount of material moved, and it will still be as good as you can make it, but with far far less actual work!

I will take this opportunity to state that a high mirror polish, is not always the best thing, as the grooves and ridges that are present, do tend to hold oil in the areas that are being moved. If you polish it so smooth that there is no place for the oil to hold, you eventually wear out your parts due to lack of lube. It's a hell of a two edged sword really, trying to find the right amount.

And yeah, it's quite the accomplishment, to pull off a "black" Polish on a small part. Gross overkill, mostly, but once you know what one is, you sorta look for places to use it!

And, thanks for the kind words. It took me a long time and a lot of screwups to get a level of skill to the point where I feel OK about passing it on. I would add, in that note, that screwups are pretty normal when you try new things. Trying to do better next time, is what is going to separate the guys the could have, from those the did. Own the mistakes, try not to make the same one again and again!
 
Just IMHO, I've never bought into the "grooves/pores" holding more lube theory.

I can see it when you're referring to poured babbit bearings or sintered brass bearings, but it hasn't been proven to me one way or the other.

Still, I wouldn't fault anyone that left a few marks or pores behind as that surface would be hard to tell functionally from a fully polished surface.
 
Re polishing, I ran into a Dan Wesson model 15 357M revolver that had the innards polished to a mirror finish, and the gun quit working if it was oiled.
The oil worked like a suction and held sear ,etc from sliding. Bone dry it worked great, thou it was too light of a action.
Dan Wesson are a different action than say Colt or Smith.
So a little can be enough.
I have seen a real high polish interfere with a good blue job, maybe because heavy polishing hardened the steel?
I have not hot blued myself. All the good ones I knew have passed on.
 
Just IMHO, I've never bought into the "grooves/pores" holding more lube theory.
...

Well, I have seen lube just bead up rather than coat some mirror polished surfaces. There are probably pretty common combinations of conditions in typical firearms use than would result in corrosion in this case, no?

It hasn't happened to me, but I'm on the anal side with gun care.
 
Just IMHO, I've never bought into the "grooves/pores" holding more lube theory.

I can see it when you're referring to poured babbit bearings or sintered brass bearings, but it hasn't been proven to me one way or the other.

Still, I wouldn't fault anyone that left a few marks or pores behind as that surface would be hard to tell functionally from a fully polished surface.

Depends on the purpose of the polish job. Exterior of metal parts, smooth is good, places where they need to move, not so much, as it becomes possible to wring the parts together so that they will not move freely.
This is the purpose for the patterns of scraped in grooves, often seen on machine tools.

Given that we are talking firearms parts that are being polished for slicker movement, the keys as I see them, are to remove the least metal possible to get the effect wanted, and to change the dimensions or fit of the parts the least that you can.

On the subject of a poured babbit bearing, the usual practice is to carve a groove around the inner surface to aid in distribution of lubricant. Sintered bronze bearings are essentially a sponge with all manner of gaps and spaces, from their method of manufacture.

Ever played with Gage Blocks? Sometimes called Jo Blocks or Johansen Blocks.
You can clean the surfaces, and slide them together and they grip tight enough that it takes one heck of a straight line pull to get them apart, and as you do wring them together, they become very difficult to move as the space between them is closed up. Too smooth is at least as bad as too rough, when you have to have movement.
 
The patterns you refer to are basicly the same thing as the channels carved into babbit bearings. They are meant to hold liquid lube and when the fitted part passes, the liquid lube is forced between the bushing and rod to create a micron thin fluid film for the rod to rotate on and completely eliminate contact between the two metal surfaces, while in operation.

I've poured and fitted cross slide bushings in large high volume, low pressure (80psi) reciprocating compressors, with bores large enough to stand up in. The non detergent 10wt oil was pumped into the grooves to create that fluid film.

I'm not denying that a porous surface will hold oil or even light grease, but it won't absorb it, unless it's sintered or purposely created with micron size voids to hold the lube.

That's why I prefer a good light lithium based grease over oil. It will stick to just about any surface, but with use, will get wiped off.

If the surface is mirror polished, as you say, it can create more drag, because the lubricant has been wiped away and there is more surface contact, so more friction happening.

A slightly rough surface can and often is easier to move things along because there is less contact and maybe lubricant in the bottom. The thing is, that roughness increases tolerances faster as the highs rub against each other and things become sloppy.

The slickest bolt rifles I have, Mannlichers, Long Lee, Tikka all have mirror polished contact surfaces and yes, they will bind if they're dry, so they do require a tad more maintenance.

The No1 Lee Enfields are smoother overall than any No4, from the factory because they're finished better on average.

Want to check out the difference between Mauser 98s in polished surfaces and their smooth function? Get a Brazilian Model 1908 and Model 1935 side by side and lube them with lithium grease. The 1908 will start to bind around 150 functions of the bolt. The 1935, which hasn't been finished quite as well, will just keep right on functioning until your arm gets sore.

We're pretty much on the same page though

Alpining, if you're anal about firearms care, that's fine. I can be but not always. To many to be that fussy.

As for lube beading on a polished surface, if that's happening, you're using the wrong lube and it's telling you to use a light LITHIUM GREASE.
 
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As for lube beading on a polished surface, if that's happening, you're using the wrong lube and it's telling you to use a light LITHIUM GREASE.

Agreed - I haven't seen that kind of issue with the CLP variants that I use (but I don't go for crazy high polished surfaces either). I'll grease some areas and CLP others just based on my half-assed mechanical understanding. I'm sure I could learn more about which to use where!
 
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