Bear defense barrel length?

rob350

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I am keeping a eye out for a general purpose shotgun that is small enough to carry around on the quad or while camping, but also suitable for bear defense.

Will a extremely short barrel (making it easy to pack around) like 12.5" be a bad choice?
 
12.5 or 14" are probably ideal. Short and easy to pack so you HAVE it with you, you don't leave it in the truck. Still long enough to make it easy to use. I haven't tried a 8.5" barrel shotgun yet though.:p
 
I am keeping a eye out for a general purpose shotgun that is small enough to carry around on the quad or while camping, but also suitable for bear defense.

Will a extremely short barrel (making it easy to pack around) like 12.5" be a bad choice?

I assume you're referring to a Dominion Arms Grizzly pump? :)

A good choice, buy some Challenger rifled slugs and you're set.
 
I just use an 18.5 inch barrel on a Remington 870 on canoe trips where bear encounters are likely. I would consider a collapsible stock before shortening the barrel more but that is just my take on things.
 
Yes, was looking into the grizzly pump, realy liking the 12.5" mag fed they are bringing in.
My thought is pop a clip in and you have 5 rounds to blast with. I think that would be faster than having to manually load 5 rounds into a tube.


I would have leaned more towards the 15" probably, but I dont hear of any plans to bring in any for a while.
 
Yes, was looking into the grizzly pump, realy liking the 12.5" mag fed they are bringing in.
My thought is pop a clip in and you have 5 rounds to blast with. I think that would be faster than having to manually load 5 rounds into a tube.

If you actually care about bear defence, your tube mag would be fully loaded to begin with.

And I believe a tube would be better, as its less bulky and you can top it up on the fly.
 
If you actually care about bear defence, your tube mag would be fully loaded to begin with.

And I believe a tube would be better, as its less bulky and you can top it up on the fly.

Yeah im inclined to agree, if your worried about bears the mag better be loaded and in the gun to begin with and the tube is probably better than a magazine because it less likely to get caught up on thing etc.

I have a 14 inch 870 as my everything gun and i can hit a pie plate at 100m with the bead site and winchester slugs so it works for me.
 
another possible benefit of a short barrel length is that it could still be maneuvered/fired while a bear is mauling you or your tent. good luck bringing an 18.5-28" gun to bear (no pun intended) on something thats a foot away from you, or inside the confines of a tent.
keep in mind this is just theory: ive never been in a bear attack. however, in most bear attacks ive read about there was a prolonged struggle. it seems to me that if you fail to turn/stop the bear's charge and it actually starts mauling you, a short maneuverable barrel may be more beneficial than the minor ballistic advantages of a longer barrel -- especially since we cant carry handguns in the bush.

just some food for thought.
 
The 12.5" Grizz holds 4 2.75" slugs. It shoots them accurately. I talked to some guy at my range that was putting on a serious bear defense class and he told me you're prob using slugs and prob shooting in the range of 15'. They teach quick reloading techniques, but I think 4 shots is probably enough. And since you're using slugs at such a short range I can't see you needing anything else. With an regular stock on it, the 12.5" is still pretty short and doesn't have any project handles... Easy to pack and ready to rock in like 2 seconds. Go for it.

Only thing is you might find something lighter and maybe semi-auto. But for the money and the abuse and rain it will probably see I can't imagine a better choice?
 
Having carried a shotgun in the bush for work on more than one occasion I can say that weight is the mitigating factor. I started carrying a 18" defenderbut it was sold for a 14" Remington (thanks to the company's new safety policy). However, even though this is a compact and light package most of the smaller guys and some of the ladies end up leaning it against a tree while they work. This, we all know, is counterproductive. I have myself, on ocassion, left it somewhere other than on my person during a long day. This is inevitable concidering the additional equipment we carry. I've just ordered a DA 8.5" and plan on putting a hogue short stock on it. This should be a nice compact shotgun that can fit all. I realize that the DA is a little heavy but with it's very compact design it will ride on the back a little morE comfortably. I'm also fairly good with leather and I plan on designing a back carrier.
 
The gun's weight and bulk is a greater factor at the end of the day than in the morning. You are tired and less aware of what is going on around you, so you are certainly more likely to find yourself in a difficult bear situation than at other times of the day. If you are like me, for what ever reason I end up leaving with the sun in my eyes in the morning and returning with the sun in my eyes in the evening. This helps to ensure that if you do have a bear encounter it will be close, particularly if the bear is as oblivious to what is around him as you are, or I am.

Lots of folks who have never been close to a bear seem to develop some pretty strange ideas of what they need to do to defend themselves should a dangerous bear situation develop. One of these ideas is the tactical reload. While reloading under stress is a good drill to practice, I doubt it has much application in real life unless you carry a single shot for bear defense. I did for quite a few years, and I got pretty handy at reloading those things, but folks who choose the shotgun for self defense will find that the repeating shotgun with a magazine capacity of 4-6 rounds is a better idea. I consider it a mistake to have fewer than 5 available rounds in the gun, but more than 6 makes the gun unwieldily. Chances are if you are going to be able to solve the problem you will have to do it with 1 or 2 rounds, that is all there is time for, so tactical reloading while an interesting technique to master, doesn't really have an application in the bear defense scenario. This being the case, while we want the gun to be as light and portable as possible, choosing a barrel length that requires a shorter than standard magazine length is not a wise tradeoff in case you do need more than two rounds. You might have a failure to fire, you might miss with your first shot, and cycling the action is faster and simpler than the tactical reload.

Cycling the action brings us to the point of which action to choose. Most folks, myself included choose the pump shotgun. The pump shotgun has much going for it; low cost, good reliability under field conditions, etc, etc. But the pump does have limitations, and the person who chooses the pump must know those limitations. The first is the dreaded short stroke. This is where the shooter who is under stress, doesn't bring the fore-end completely to the rear of its travel before pushing it forward again. Invariably this results in a gun that will not fire. The auto-loader never short cycles. Provided a quality auto-loader is maintained to the same extent as a similar quality pump, reliability will be the same. The fixed fore-end of the auto provides a more stable shooting platform, than the wobbly fore-end of the pump. Finally, if the shooter is injured and only has one arm with which to operate the gun, it is easier to fire multiple rounds from the auto with just one arm working than it is from the pump.

Most shotguns are intended to be used for pass shooting at waterfowl. The use of the shotgun for self defense is a departure from this more traditional roll, and the handling of the gun takes on a more rifle like style. As a result most adults will find the LOP of an off the shelf shotgun too long. The recoil pad should also be upgraded in many cases as well, and the LOP for most folks is best somewhere between 13"-13.5", particularly with bulky outdoor clothing. Shortening up the LOP and using proper shooting techniques will reduce the felt recoil of full powered slug loads, bear defense is no place for reduced recoil ammunition.

Finally we come to the crux of the OP's problem, how to carry this thing. First of all, when going through heavy cover where the visibility is marginal, the gun should be in your hands. Your firing hand should protect the trigger, preventing branches from entering the trigger guard. Once you are clear of the heavy cover, the gun can be slung. For the last 10 years I have used a simple 1.25" nylon carry sling, but I am now going to try an upgrade. I'm not sure how well this will work out, but various military and police units have had success with it, so I though it was time to try it myself. This is what is often referred to as a team sling, a 3 point sling, or an H&K sling and is attached to the weapon by two sling plates, one at the juncture of the stock and the receiver and one behind the mag tube cap. The advantage is that the gun is carried in a firing position in front of you, or can be pushed out of the way behind your hip when you are engaged in a non-shooting activity. Thus, the shotgun becomes more like the handgun in that it is worn rather than something you have to go and get when its needed. How well this system will work out, I'll let you know after I've used it for a while.
 
I'll have agree with Boomer's wisdom.

I think the mag feds are just not as good as a solid pump/tube fed.

I don't have much confidence in my grizzly mag fed, I'd much rather have a 14" on my 870 with good quality ammo. Not to mention the 870 has a Al receiver, while the griz is steel = lots more weight.
 
I don't have much confidence in my grizzly mag fed, I'd much rather have a 14" on my 870 with good quality ammo. Not to mention the 870 has a Al receiver, while the griz is steel = lots more weight.

the 870 receiver is steel. 500/590 is aluminum.

i dont have a scale that can measure over 500g handy, but i doubt there is more than an ounce or two difference between a stripped 870 and a stripped grizzly receiver. the main factor in the weight difference is the stock: the factory grizzly stock is very heavy. swap it and the mag cap and you shave nearly a pound of weight off the grizzly.
 
I put a grizzly stock on my 14" 870 (better sight pic for me) and don't really feel the weight difference.But on the 8.5 I took it off and put a wooden 870 stock on because of the weight difference. Go figure.
 
in ontario we are not allowed to carry a gun in algonquin park and there is a population estimated at 1 for 3 square miles.there have been at least three encounters were people have been injured this spring .the fine is 240 dollars and loss of your gun if you are caught in the park.i was in the powassan area last week which buts up against the park and saw 5 black bears . a sow and two cubs and two adults .
 
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