Bear defense Shotgun?

na1lb0hm

na1lb0hm

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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RMH, AB
First off, this is not pointed at anyone in particular, just inspired by blaxsun's quest to make the black/green rifles a better place by setting up an easy source of information.


good point...rather than b*tch i'll start, lets try and keep this format?

Name/model
Status
Accessories
Action
Barrel
Sights
Feed
Choke:
Average price:

Dominion Arms Grizzly
status: non-res
Accessories: takes 870 accessories, pistol grips, ar stock adapters, mag extensions, chokes (with right barrel),heat shields, fore ends (some require filing on inside to fit)sling plates, regular buttstocks, drop in sight replacements,
Action - pump
Barrel lengths-8.5, 12.5, 15, 18.5"
Sights - Ghost ring or bead
Feed- Tube or mag fed
Choke: fixed cylinder
Average price depending on configuration - ~$299-$399

Dominion Arms Cougar
Status: non-res
Accessories: ?
Action : semi
Barrel Length: 18.5
Sights: ghost ring
feed: tube
Choke: improved (screw in)
Average price ~$

Dominion Arms Backpacker
status: non res
acccessories:
action : break/single
barrel:13
sights: bead
feed:single
choke: mod
average price:$149

Dominion Arms Outlaw
status: non res
acccessories:
action : SxS break
barrel:12
sights: bead
feed:single shot
choke: mod
average price:$299

something like that?
 
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these threads are lame, why wouldnt people just list the most common guns, mods for them and where to get them rather then making these threads so a bunch of crusty CGNers have one more thread to complain in.

Dont get me wrong Im tired of the defense threads to, but insulting new members right out of the box turns new members off and makes everyone here look like our noses are in the air. You where new once as well and asked the same questions.

Plus your in the black/green rifle forum, if we arnt talking about zombies, bears and cougars what would we talk about? Is there a real reason to own a 12.5" gun that weighs 15 lbs and has lasers, baynets, heat shields and god knows what else on it?
 
lil_juiced_coupe said:
these threads are lame, why wouldnt people just list the most common guns, mods for them and where to get them rather then making these threads so a bunch of crusty CGNers have one more thread to complain in.

Dont get me wrong Im tired of the defense threads to, but insulting new members right out of the box turns new members off and makes everyone here look like our noses are in the air. You where new once as well and asked the same questions.

Plus your in the black/green rifle forum, if we arnt talking about zombies, bears and cougars what would we talk about? Is there a real reason to own a 12.5" gun that weighs 15 lbs and has lasers, baynets, heat shields and god knows what else on it?
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edit... you're right see first
 
Anybody have good things to say about the Dominion Arms Backpacker?

I'm just thinking about getting one for fly fishing in bear country once a year. First shot noise maker to scare away. Second shot to kill or be killed.

How light is the gun?
 
A chinese knockoff is not gonna get my vote......

Mossberg 500, Remington 870, or Winchester Defender.

My only caution would be that the Express 870's finish is prone to rust.

My choice is the Winchester Defender Marine Pump! ;)
 
mlehtovaara said:
A chinese knockoff is not gonna get my vote......
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I agree, non of the ones listed would ever come with me into the woods. Most have serious issues from the factory.

*MALICE* said:
The best shotgun for bear defense is a rifle.
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Guide Gun and done. Shotguns are great for birds but handicapped for big game. A rifle does more damage with less diameter.
 
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Best bear defense
 
There are things you can do with a shotgun that the rifle won't do. Now don't get me wrong, I prefer to carry a rifle when that option allows, but there are times when the rifle is an inappropriate choice. If you spend a great deal of time in bear habitat, it is to your advantage to have both bases covered.

Early this morning, there was a bear incident just down the street from us, but I was unaware of it, so I was unable to intervene. I won't go into detail because everything I've heard about the incident has been largely been contradicted by other versions of it. But long story short, two people were seriously injured by a bear, and a number of shotguns firing cracker shells during the attack, were used in an attempt to drive the bear off it's victim. Firing a rifle in a populated area, in an emotionally charged situation, at a bear which is on it's victim, is a recipe for disaster. The shotgun provides a powerful short range capability and when buckshot is selected, the danger of over penetration though not eliminated, is significantly reduced should a problem arise in a town or crowded camp ground. Shooting a bear off it's victim is probably the most emotionally challenging problem anyone can be faced with, but doing it in a crowd of people is an impossible situation which can only be successfully executed by an exceptionally cool hand. The right tool is a buckshot loaded shotgun fired from a range of a few feet.

A rifle won't shoot cracker shells, rubber bullets, or other less lethal rounds. A rifle won't shoot shot loads. A rifle bullet will out penetrate a shotgun slug, but in some situations, excessive penetration can be a serious disadvantage. The rifle has two primary advantages over the shotgun, penetration and range. Range is seldom an advantage in a personal bear defense situation because if the bear can't touch you he can't hurt you, so at long or even moderate range, what would you be defending against? In this context, the shotgun is a better choice than a rifle, if a single defensive firearm is chosen.

Now that we've established that the shotgun is appropriate, which shotgun should be chosen? In the defensive roll, its simply unwise to purchase the cheapest gun available. Once you have your gun, it is equally unwise to treat it as if it were a club. The primary purpose of this gun is to protect your life. Now, is you life worth only the cost of a $125 gun? Is your life worth so little, that its too much trouble to maintain that gun while you're in the field? Buy a good quality gun, life saving equipment is not the place to go cheap, and look after it. If the budget is tight, choose a mid priced pump; pumps are less expensive than autos of similar quality. The auto eliminates the chance of short stroking the action when full powered ammo is selected, but less lethal ammo is loaded to low pressure, which won't cycle the auto-loader, neither gas or recoil operated. Stainless or nickle plated guns provide the best protection from weather or corrosive ammo induced rust, but they cost a bit more.

Its time to cut to the chase. For my money, Remington 870s and Mossberg 500 and 590s are the top choices, with my personal preference going to the 590 Mossberg. I want rifle sights, preferably a ghost ring and rectangular post, but an open rear sight and bead front is better than nothing. I want a sling and swivels. I want a side-saddle so that my spare or alternate ammo is in or on the gun. While I want a short barrel, I don't want the barrel so short that I could inadvertently slide my hand off the forend and in front of the muzzle. Neither do I want to reduce the magazine capacity to less than 4 rounds, but long magazines make for heavy guns. I want synthetic stocks. Given these parameters and some range time, you'll be in good shape.
 
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Winchester SXP Defender Xtreme......... inertia assisted pump, black chrome barrel, hard chrome inner barrel and chamber, ghost sights and picatinny rail for under $500 ...... nuff said

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The biggest debate I've found for myself is weight and portability over firepower. More often than not, I find myself carrying my small, light single shot 20ga H&R Pardner. it's 1/3 the weight of my Mossberg 12ga and a little bit shorter. While fly fishing, you're on the move constantly. Being able to carry your gear, rod and gun easily and with minimal effort is important. If you're simply using the gun as camp defence, and don't have to carry it, then you can use pretty much whatever you want.
 
Some interesting opinions, here - I'm guessing some of them have been put forward by folks who've never seen a bear in the wild - or actually carried a firearm primarily for bear defense.

I've spent a fair bit of time in bear country. My first line of bear defense is my pair of Rhodesian Ridgebacks. They stay close, are loyal and courageous to a fault - and absolutely will not abide any wild animals inside their "perimeter". They are a mother/daughter team - the three year old has treed 7 or 8 bears, the older one - well, I'll say its considerably more.

I absolutely guarantee (and this based on 30 odd years of working and playing amidst population concentrations of bears - both black and grizz) that the bear you will not have a problem with is the bear that doesn't come near you. Large breed hunting hounds ensure that this is the case in every encounter (and this is based on experience - not conjecture).

However - not everyone can have (or want) dogs - so a firearm is definitely your next best option.

The best bear defense firearm - is the one you will carry.

Leave your tactical gimmick guns at home and keep it simple, light, portable and quick-to-hand. Trying to booney-bash along a fly-fishing river with an 18.5'' shotgun on your back would only be advocated by someone that hasn't tried it.

If its a pain in the ass to carry off-trail - chances are you will find reasons to leave it in the truck - so make sure you can traverse the thick stuff comfortably with whatever you choose. And keep it on a sling that brings it to hand quickly - if you need it, you'll likely need it quickly and unexpectedly. I like a BFG VCAS - but your mileage may vary - go with what works for you as long as its familiar and works well for you.

Rifle vs. shotty. Bit of a can of worms - but mostly a matter of preference. A large caliber rifle is most likely the ideal tool for putting an aggressive bear down quickly - but a bear hit with a 3'' 1.5 ounce slug is going to know that its been hit.
And I can carry that hitting power in a package sporting a 12.5'' barrel which doesn't extend above my shoulders when on my back. That makes it my choice every time.

If the time you spend in the bush isn't spent in thick bush (horse-back, camp site, trail walking) go with a rifle (a Guide Gun is a great choice) - if traversing riverside growth is a big part of your day in bear country - go with the short shotty.

I think it really is that simple - keep it simple, keep it light, keep it to hand. Don't sweat the off-shore versus domestic manufacture too much - if it reliably goes bang every time you pull the trigger, and reloads the chamber every time you rack the action, good enough. If it has failed to load, eject, or fire even once in practice - sell it and try something else - this holds true for rifle vs shotgun as well as domestic vs off-shore manufacture.

Heres a couple of things you don't want. A double barrel. Its my belief that no bear defense firearm should load less than 4 rounds - rifle or shotgun. If you manage to turn the attack with a firearm - you have the responsibility to make sure the bear is dead. You don't leave a wounded bear in the bush to suffer - you don't leave a wounded bear in the bush to be a danger to the next person fishing that stretch of river and you don't leave a wounded bear in the bush for a CO to have to hunt down to finish the job.

If you shoot at and hit a bear - you kill the bear. Two rounds are not enough to ensure that its a done deal - and I don't care how fast you can reload your double - you won't do it before that bear is out of sight in thick bush if its in full retreat.

Leave your buckshot at home - it has no place in bear defense. It was never designed to take down an animal the size of a bear, and it won't reliably do it. Would you try to shoot a bear off your fishing partner or your dog with buckshot? Probably not - I wouldn't. If you choose a shotgun it must be loaded with the heaviest slugs your shotgun can chamber - period. Anything less is irresponsible and dangerous.

Lastly - when you have made your choice - practice with it. And don't practice with target loads if you load 1.5 ounce Federal slugs when you're in bear country. Practice with what you'll use.

This has been my bear-carry for a number of years - short, light, irrevocably reliable and handy (the shell carrier is removed for carry in the bush). It hasn't come out of the truck much since my dogs have come of age, though.
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