belted magnum collet dies

TheNewGunnut

TheNewGunnut

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So I've been searching around on the net looking for a collet die for reloading magnums. So far all I've been able to find is this one from larrywillis.com

Have any of you used this? Is it as effective as the claim? Worth the $150?
 
I have not used one. There are a number of people that responded to some of my 300WM reloading questions who say that they have used them. I believe the Larry Willis is the only one that will resize down to the belt.
 
I have and use this die. I have 4 belted mag cartridges and need it for one in particular. Just the way that chamber is cut with the die I use. Regardless you will still need a regular sizing die to go along with this die. It only sizes the portion of the case just north of the belt. As for the price you will have to decide for yourself. If you have expensive brass(Laupa -Norma etc) then it may be cost effective. What cartridge are you reloading that you may need this die for. Sometimes there are alternatives.
 
I asked the same question many years ago and the answer is you need it if you have a specialty use for it. If you need it, you'll know. For general use, just standard loading dies.
 
A few years ago i took a cheap lee 300win mag die. As they are know to be the closest to minimum size. Used a lathe and took off the grove for the belt and the cut off the top of the die. Made a short body only die that will fit all belted magnums. Got the hard to reach area just above the belt.
 
id currently only need it for my 7mm stw, the brass can be a pain to source and fatory loads are way over priced. are you guys just running a caliper near the belt to make sure they are still good before loading? im still kind of new to this and the thought of live rounds that wont fit worries me lol
 
The need to size the case just above the belt depends on the diameter of the chamber above the belt, and the case body thickness above the belt.

As an example of this below are two .303 British cases fired in the same No.4 Enfield rifle. The Prvi Partizan case on the left is .010 thicker in the base area and larger in base diameter. The HXP case on the right is over .010 thinner in the base area and also smaller in base diameter. And on the HXP case, you can see how the case expanded to contact the chamber walls. If your Belted case expands like the HXP case just above the belt the sizing die will not reduce this area in diameter and the case will start rubbing and binding when chambering,

And coloring this area with a black felt tip marker and chambering the case looking for rub marks will tell you if you need special sizing methods to reduce the diameter.

eM3H3ls.jpg


As you can see below the collet die will squeeze and size the case just above the belt where a standard sizing die never touches. And a black felt tip marker and a vernier caliper will give you the answer if you need a special die.

diesmall.jpg
 
TheNewGunnut said:
id currently only need it for my 7mm stw, the brass can be a pain to source and fatory loads are way over priced. are you guys just running a caliper near the belt to make sure they are still good before loading? im still kind of new to this and the thought of live rounds that wont fit worries me lol
Click to expand...

Unless your 7 stw chamber is oversized, I doubt you'll need it. I've built a couple 7 STW's, never had tbis issue. Incidentally, if you're having a tough time finding brass, you can neck down and use 300 H&H, or 375 H&H. 300 is easier to resize. - dan
 
I have one; and saved enough the first time I used it to pay for it several times over. I had a pile of once fired Weatherby brass that were fired in a rifle I had sold, and there was no way I could size them for the two of that caliber remaining. That was after using ever trick I knew.

You don’t need something like this until you need it. At that point, nothing else will work. Before that point it might be understandable to believe that if you don’t need it nobody else does. Human nature I guess.
 
Contrary to previous post in this thread, the Larry Willis dies does NOT size down the belt - it sizes down the smidgeon of the case body ahead of the belt that normal dies don't. As several other users mention, a real life saver, when you need it - in my case, I bought a couple hundred previously fired Norma cases - after full length sizing, not a single one would fit in my 300 Weatherby Mag - new Norma brass would, but the re-sized ones would not. Bought that Larry Willis die, and easy paid for it in the first 50 or 60 of those brass that I "saved". I did form some 7mm Rem Mag into 7x61 S&H a few years ago, that would not chamber due to expansion just ahead of the belt. As it turned out, my RCBS 458 Win Mag dies was apparently cut just enough tighter, that I was able to use the re-formed brass after running it through that 458 Win Mag die. But the Larry Willis die made all those issues go away. And, super extra bonus points for the cool little "gauge" built into the top of the die!!
 
Huh, the things you didn't know that you didn't know
Have reloaded 338 375 and 7stw with full length sizing and never new about this issue
Is the swelling due to chamber dimensions or load pressures or ?
Or does the collet die allow sizing without pushing the shoulder back?
 
boxhitch said:
Huh, the things you didn't know that you didn't know
Have reloaded 338 375 and 7stw with full length sizing and never new about this issue
Is the swelling due to chamber dimensions or load pressures or ?
Or does the collet die allow sizing without pushing the shoulder back?
Click to expand...

I believe it comes from oversized chambers. As Dogleg mentioned, mostly you don't need it. But if you do, for a very specific problem, nothing else will fix it. - dan
 
boxhitch said:
Huh, the things you didn't know that you didn't know
Have reloaded 338 375 and 7stw with full length sizing and never new about this issue
Is the swelling due to chamber dimensions or load pressures or ?
Or does the collet die allow sizing without pushing the shoulder back?
Click to expand...

I have reloaded 338 Win Mag fired in my rifle with a set of RCBS dies that have had no issues, ever. I believe the problem comes about with a chamber on the larger size and a sizing die on the smaller side. As the body is being reduced in diameter, some of that brass is being pushed towards the belt. I no longer try to measure with a mic - too easy now with the gauge on top of the Larry Willis die to insert a case and see if it goes all the way in or not. As per the instructions, use this die after full length or neck sizing, and as per instructions, they recommend sizing to headspace on the shoulder, not the belt. It is a "universal" die - works on any standard belted case except 224, 240, 378 and 460 Weatherby - the collet fingers seem to work on only perhaps the 1/8" ahead of the belt, maybe less. So it does not replace a full length or neck size die - use it after sizing, when you find the cases that you sized won't chamber in your rifle.
 
boxhitch said:
Huh, the things you didn't know that you didn't know
Have reloaded 338 375 and 7stw with full length sizing and never new about this issue
Is the swelling due to chamber dimensions or load pressures or ?
Or does the collet die allow sizing without pushing the shoulder back?
Click to expand...

Chambers, resizing dies and cases vary in size, the problem is if you have a chamber on the plus side and cases on the small size. There are cases made that are thin just above the belt and expand more than normal and the sizing die does not touch. Then this bulging area above the belt causes hard chambering and the Larry Willis collet die will reduce the bulging area above the belt.

Bottom line, if you have a fat chamber and a skinny case with thin case walls above the belt you may need the Larry Willis collet die. Think of a Lee collet die that only sizes the case neck and the Larry Willis collet die only squeezes and sizes the case above the belt.

Below is a larger photo of the Larry Willis collet die and it sizes the bottom of the case above the belt. And as I stated before coloring the base of the case with a black felt tip marker and then chambering the case and checking for rub marks will tell you if you need this die.

In my opinion, the biggest problem is caused by poorly made cases that are not thick enough above the belt and bulge when fired.

diebig.jpg
 
bigedp51 said:
Chambers, resizing dies and cases vary in size, the problem is if you have a chamber on the plus side and cases on the small size. There are cases made that are thin just above the belt and expand more than normal and the sizing die does not touch. Then this bulging area above the belt causes hard chambering and the Larry Willis collet die will reduce the bulging area above the belt.

Bottom line, if you have a fat chamber and a skinny case with thin case walls above the belt you may need the Larry Willis collet die. Think of a Lee collet die that only sizes the case neck and the Larry Willis collet die only squeezes and sizes the case above the belt.

Below is a larger photo of the Larry Willis collet die and it sizes the bottom of the case above the belt. And as I stated before coloring the base of the case with a black felt tip marker and then chambering the case and checking for rub marks will tell you if you need this die.

In my opinion, the biggest problem is caused by poorly made cases that are not thick enough above the belt and bulge when fired.

diebig.jpg
Click to expand...

See this is the problem with researching on the internet these days I've found a few references saying basically what your talking about here and then they tell you this die is the only way to stop it. They never mention how likely or ways to test befor rushing out to buy one. Black marker, simple and elegant.
 
Ruger007 said:
A few years ago i took a cheap lee 300win mag die. As they are know to be the closest to minimum size. Used a lathe and took off the grove for the belt and the cut off the top of the die. Made a short body only die that will fit all belted magnums. Got the hard to reach area just above the belt.
Click to expand...

I have done the same thing with a 7mm Rem mag die, works just fine.
 
One issue I ran into was what turned out to be a short chambered 7 mag I had rebarrelled . After resizing with RCBS fl dies ,some brass chambered ok, some was tight and some would not allow the bolt to close. I found that different brands/batches of brass had higher belts than others and the front edge of the belt was bottoming out on the edge of the chamber.Rather than a trip to the gunsmith I chucked my brass in a lathe and shortened the belt a couple thou. on some brands. I was surprised at the amount of variance of the height of the belt from brand to brand.
 
I have one of these and have used it often, but only for one reason so far, that being to resize brass once fired in other rifles. I picked up a lot of once fired Black Hills match 300 WM brass and the die was useful for sizing the case body without touching the shoulder and neck which I do as a separate step in a conventional Redding FL die. If I didn’t have it I found that a standard FL die wouldn’t size the body enough. My rifle has the A191 chamber so it might be tighter vs a standard 300 WM reamer.

Also I was reloading some cases for a friend who had his rifle re barreled and used it for that as well. I don’t use the method of screwing the FL die down to touch the shell holder but instead use a case micrometer and size like you would with a non belted case so perhaps my FL die isn’t fully sizing the web area for that reason.

After my brass is set up I have not had to use it in subsequent re loads but just use the conventional dies after that.

I think it’s a bit of a misnomer that this die is required for routine sizing of brass in a belted magnum at least that’s been my limited experience.
 
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