Beltfed Canuck44 Postal Duel

Canuck44

Canuck44

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
42   0   0
Location
Terrace, B.C.
Well I don't know if it enough but I got out today and shot the Shadow at 15 yards. I tried my reloads (124 gr Lyman 356402 Cast from WW water quenched over 4.1 gr of Win 231). In addition I tried Rem UMC 147 gr MC, Win Super X 147 gr FMJ and Win Ranger 147 gr FMJ. Shot from a stock CZ Shadow with less than 1K rounds through it.

The best group? Rem UMC .975"followed by Lyman's 356402 Bullet. Here are the pics.:

Rem UMC .975" Measured Outside to outside. Yes there are five rounds in there.

010.jpg


Lyman 356402 1.032"

009.jpg


Other targets shot:

Rem UMC 1.037"
Win Super X 1.047"
Win Ranger - None Kept or measured 3" would have been kind No wonder some officers have a hard time qualifying with this stuff.

I also took out my Tanfoglio Model "L" and tried my Lyman 356402 load. The Tanfoglio has over 10K rouonds through it and remains as tight as the day I bought it.

It shot a five shot group of 1.395" with the Lyman 356402 reloads and another one at 1.577"

I haven't shot this gun all year and only shot two targets with it. The gun with younger eyes would shoot a lot better as would the Shadow but for playing IDPA/IPSC both guns are more than adequate.

For giggles I am going to take my CZ85 Combat out tomorrow and see how it matches up. It is bone stock as well but will have the Competition sights and hammer installed by my friend Ken Soucie before the Ontario Provincials. It will become my IDPA SSP Gun with the Shadow used in IPSC Production and my Model "L" for IDPA ESP.

Not sure if the above is enough to hold off Beltfed and his Glock 17. I guess we will know in due course.

All in fun.

Take Care

Bob
 
Last edited:
I'm in Lethbridge all weekend shooting IPSC, but will reply in a few days....

Anyone else want in on this to dispell the CZs accuarcy advantage, feel free.
 
While that's nice shooting and I wish I could consistently do that well at 15 yards this is still about the shooter and not about the guns. Unless you want to mount the guns solidly to a big immovable object and test fire for barrel accuracy this is all just for grins and giggles and proves not one thing at all. Even bench resting the results will be more about the shooters eyesight resolution and ability to hold the gun than about one gun's advantage over the other.
 
Yes but it is all in fun. I know Beltfed will give it his best and at then end of the day we both will have enjoyed ourselves. The world isn't holding their breath on the outcome.

BCRider yuo got to lighten up. Go to your range set a target up at 15 yards and give it a go. I did learn a few things like my gun doesn't like Win Ranger ammo and my reloads need some fine tuning.

Take Care

Bob
 
Good shooting C44 and no offense, but my money is on Beltfed.

Shot with him numerous times for DPL at the Edge and the man can shoot, and shoot fast...with accuracy.

<places a $20 bill on the table>...anyone else wants in on the action?
 
edward911 said:
Good shooting C44 and no offense, but my money is on Beltfed.

Shot with him numerous times for DPL at the Edge and the man can shoot, and shoot fast...with accuracy.

<places a $20 bill on the table>...anyone else wants in on the action?
Click to expand...

Hey none taken. We are shooting from a rest so speed isn't a factor. Just seeing if a stock Glock 17 can outshoot a stock CZ SP-01 Shadow that is all. Neither of us have a Ransom Rest or at least I don't so this is about as close as we can get to comparing the two. At the end of the day whether is has any practical application for our two sports is moot. My Para SSP shot a tighter group at this distance from a rest a couple of years ago but that was then and this is now.

Regardless of the outcome Glock lovers will either be happy or complain the test means nothing or the CZ folks will be happy or complain the test means nothing. I am going to test out my M&P, my CZ85C and try the Tanfoglio with it's .40cal top end for the fun of it as well.

One thing that did come out of it is how bad Win Ranger ammo performed in my Shadow. It will be interesting to see if it performs any better in my other guns.

Joe T. is raising money to send his daughter to New Zealand on a school project. How about anyone wanting to best the above targets (Factory aganst factory/Reloads against reloads) send a donation to Joe. PM me for his address. Like the shoot it is on the honour system.
Take Care

Bob
 
Last edited:
When I develop a load for a pistol, I shoot two or three bullets, with 2 powders (231 and 7625) with 3 or 4 different powder charge weights. These are shot in 2 or 3 pistols.

It never ceases to amaze me how much groups vary from load to load. In a recent test involving 3 Norc 1911s in 45, one shot 3" with 4.2g 231 and the other 3" with 6gr 7625. with other powder combinations the two pistols shot more like 6" (at 20 yards). The third pistol seemed to shoot well with everything.

I don't shoot factory ammo, but if i did I would expect to see a similar preference and distaste from brand to brand, bullet weight to bullet weight.

I intend to buy Wolf reloads in 9mm, since they don't cost much more than reloads, assuming m time is worth nothing. He offers 3 versions, so I will try to shoot all 3 before ordering a few thousands.
 
One thing I found in developing my load for my bullet/gun combo was the need for a chrono. Even when shooting the above targets I found Win Ranger factory to be all over the target coming out of my Shadow and CZ 85. The stuff was awful.

When using my chrono I look for low Standard Deviations over 10 rounds. If I can get under 10 then I feel I am where I want to be. 4.1 gr of 231 works for me under the Lyman cast bullet I use. By doing this at least I have eliminated on variable. Now if I could only aim the gun where I want the bullet to go once the buzzer goes off I would have it made in the shade!:D

Take Care

Bob
 
I didn't exactly do this in a timely fashon:rolleyes:...but its done.

I think it is safe to say that Bob's shadow is more accurate than my Glock 17 (my hats off to you Bob:rockOn:)
Some things that I learned during this:
-I can't bench a handgun worth sh!t....Who the hell benches a handgun anyhow??
-This Glock has 20,000+ rounds through it - I'd like to know what a new one will do.

OK enough whining...
This was the best of the bunch of 5 round groups fired with probably the most accurate 9mm ammunition out there -RUAG 9mm that TSE brought in (and has no more:() - I have personally witnessed RichLPS on the board fire a tighter group than this with RUAG out of my X5 at 25m - offhand:eek:)
I think either I got lucky with this one, or I can chaulk up the rest to poor bench technique.
The squares are 1", and this overall is about 2" with the majority of others in the 3" to 4" range

IMG_0617.jpg
 
All in fun. Both pistols are accurate enough for anything you or I will ever do with the pistols and we both know when the buzzer goes off we aren't getting bench rest magic at that point.

All we need to hear is Down Zero or 2 Alphas at that is good enough for both of us.

Take Care and we will see you down the road I am sure.

Bob
 
I still say that this is more about what the two of you can manage more so than what the guns themselves can manage. Even though beltfed had a "flyer" I'd call this a wash as far as the guns managed. Both of you are obviously great shooters to manage such results.

I only wish that I could group as tightly as either of you at 15 yards. But my old guy eyes and old guy hands have shown me that it ain't gonna happen..... at least not on a regular basis. I have managed to match Canuck's best group with one of my revolvers at around 15 yards one time. I was both shocked and please with myself but just don't ask me to replicate it any time soon..... :D More typically my normal groups are about 1.5 to 2 times that size.
 
I use reloads that I have worked up with the pistol. Some factory ammo is very good in my different guns some not so good, read terrible.

There is more to shooting IDPA/IPSC then just wringing out the best accuracy of the gun but it isn't a bad starting point. At the very least you know when you miss it wasn't likely ammo related.

Shooting from a rest isn't the same as shooting freestyle and I am sure Beltfed would hand my A$$ in competition. To slow with a wonky back to be much of a threat I am afraid but we both enjoy our sports and that is what is important.

You shoot the best you can on any given day with the girl you brought and be happy.

Take Care

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom