bent op rod...

[sean69]

What could cause the op rod on an M1 Garand to bend??

I've been using an adjustable gas plug, so I don't think it's that.

I was reading somewhere that incorrect lubrication [grease in the wrong spots] can cause this as well?

also - it's definitely bent, not the normal gentle curve, bent, with a puckered kink.

 

[na1lb0hm]

what kind of ammo have you been shooting?

From what I can see the rifle not passing the tilt test can cause that as well.

I suppose that incorrect lube could cause it by creating enough resistance to hamper the rearward movement of the op rod, but that would have to be extreme, no?
hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can weigh in..

 

[Hawkshadow]

What ammo have you been running? Even though you have an adjustable plug, running hot rounds can still bend the op rod. The garand has a long unsupported rod and even with the plug venting some of it the force punching into the end of it with every shot could eventually cause it to bend.

 

[bearhunter]

Lack of lubrication, will cause wear but it won't cause the op rod to bend. Under extreme conditions, the M1 Garand was often completely degreased and run dry. Especially dry sandy and extremely cold conditions.

Is there any chance you have an after market, non milsurp op rod???

It would also take a pretty steady diet of high pressure loads to cause such damage.

Improper assembly or having your adjustable port open to far, might cause that bend.

I've assembled and shot hundreds of Garands from bins of parts. A vew of those parts were damaged by whoever disassembled them an threw them into the parts bins.

Usually, the parts that had to be watched were the op rods. I've seen more than a couple that had been bent and attempts made to straighten them again. Doesn't usually work well and is usually quite visible. In many cases, the op rods even though badly worn and straightened worked well.

The Garand is a good rifle. It's parts are very robust and will work well under extreme conditions, if the operator knows its quirks.

The rifles were also tested under high use and high pressure conditions as well a a variety of bullet weights. It was concluded the 150 grain spitzer bullets were adequate for most applications required of the rifle but other weights could be used if the proper ammunition wasn't available. The sights were of course regulated for the 150 grain bullets as were the adjustments.

I saw a fellow bend an op rod a couple of years ago because of the way he used his shooting rests. The rod only had about 1/2 inch of travel before it was abruptly stopped by the shooting rest cradle. It was the first semi auto the fellow had fired and he certainly wasn't open to advice at the time so we let him go ahead and shoot. Surprised us as well because we didn't notice how deep in the cradle the rifle sat.

 

[student of history]

Just as the other guys have asked, what type of ammo are you using? The M1 Garand was originally designed to fire a 150 grain bullet so if you're feeding it 180 grain that's probably where the problem is stemming from.

How about your op-rod itself? Is it cut or uncut? Most are cut BUT if you've been using an uncut op-rod a little too much that may also cause it to bend on you... What era is your Garand?

 

[sean69]

it did pass the tilt test ... and was what I thought correctly lubricated [found a where to apply grease manual somewhere]

I've been shooting 150 & 165 grain Winchester 30.06 2950 & 2700 fps respectively. It would usually extract and only fail to extract once about every 7/8 rounds ... sometimes it would extract but the bolt would not travel far enough back to pick up another round. So I assumed I was "safe" in the pressure department.

I've also started reloading for my Mausers & SVT ... what sort of muzzle velocities should I be looking for with the Garand? [any good recipes?]

 

[buffdog]

.
Put my vote on the AMMO. The Garand has to have a certain amount of gas pressure near the muzzle to operate the action. Too little pressure and it will not function, and too much pressure will make it function too violently.

A bent operating rod is a sign of too much pressure. This is common if someone uses reloaded ammunition without a proper type of powder, and does substitute a powder that uses a burning rate that is too slow or too fast. There are specific reloads in manuals that are designed and approved for use in the M1 Garand, but some people are unaware of this, and use combinations of powders and heavier bullets loaded at near maximum pressures and / or velocities. While these loads are safe in most hunting rifles, they give excess pressure at the gas port, more pressure in fact than they system was designed to take.
.

 

[sean69]

Lack of lubrication, will cause wear but it won't cause the op rod to bend. Under extreme conditions, the M1 Garand was often completely degreased and run dry. Especially dry sandy and extremely cold conditions.

Is there any chance you have an after market, non milsurp op rod???

it is marked D35368 BMB - Breda? but just barely readable.

It would also take a pretty steady diet of high pressure loads to cause such damage.

Improper assembly or having your adjustable port open to far, might cause that bend.

I've put close to 700 rounds through it... a fair bit. I don't see assembly being the problem. however the gas port open too far??? sorry does not make sense to me. can you elaborate? [I've also shot it without the gas plug at all!!]

I saw a fellow bend an op rod a couple of years ago because of the way he used his shooting rests. The rod only had about 1/2 inch of travel before it was abruptly stopped by the shooting rest cradle. It was the first semi auto the fellow had fired and he certainly wasn't open to advice at the time so we let him go ahead and shoot. Surprised us as well because we didn't notice how deep in the cradle the rifle sat.

If I use a rest [IF!] I rest it on the stock, not the front guard.

 

[sean69]

Just as the other guys have asked, what type of ammo are you using? The M1 Garand was originally designed to fire a 150 grain bullet so if you're feeding it 180 grain that's probably where the problem is stemming from.

How about your op-rod itself? Is it cut or uncut? Most are cut BUT if you've been using an uncut op-rod a little too much that may also cause it to bend on you... What era is your Garand?

150 & 165 grain [it absolutely loved the 165!!]

you mean the relief cut? no - it's not. as for era. it's a frankengun ... so no collector value. FKF [Italian?] reciever, danish barrel, Belgian? stock [the tag appears to be in french] SA bolt etc...

 

[sean69]

.
Put my vote on the AMMO. The Garand has to have a certain amount of gas pressure near the muzzle to operate the action. Too little pressure and it will not function, and too much pressure will make it function too violently.

A bent operating rod is a sign of too much pressure. This is common if someone uses reloaded ammunition without a proper type of powder, and does substitute a powder that uses a burning rate that is too slow or too fast. There are specific reloads in manuals that are designed and approved for use in the M1 Garand, but some people are unaware of this, and use combinations of powders and heavier bullets loaded at near maximum pressures and / or velocities. While these loads are safe in most hunting rifles, they give excess pressure at the gas port, more pressure in fact than they system was designed to take.
.

ok - sweet... where can I find such a resource - nothing specific in either of my reload data books & I generally don't blindly trust 'the internet' is there a reliable/proven source?

I guess I should add to that, I used IMR4064 & 150g bullets for the one set of reloads I did put through it, sorry I forget the powder weight. [and they shot ####ty]

 

[purple]

If it still passes the "tilt test", then it's good to go. But I'm surprised to hear that it still does operate w/o binding in view of the unusual bend that you are reporting. Any area of binding on the tube portion can be matched to the part of the rifle causing interference by an area of worn finish on the tube. The lower band or the stock ferrule are the most suspect areas for the op rod to bind when cycled. If binding occurs in these areas they can be relieved. Don't take any metal off the op rod.

Some tips on reloading for the Garand;

-only use IMR4064, IMR4895 or H4895. These generate the correct gas port pressure to cycle the action w/o damage. As a bonus, they will produce excellent accuracy.

-stick to 150-168gr bullets. The Hornady 150gr FMJ is about the most accurate non-match FMJ bullet going, and it is available in bulk

-always FL re-size your brass and don't try to get more than 5 firing cycles out of a case. The Garand is hard on brass.

-keep cases trimmed to below max OAL

-always seat primers slightly below flush with the casehead to avoid the possibility of an out of battery detonation caused by the bolt face impacting a high primer on chambering

-use the hardest primers available to avoid the possibility of the primer being detonated by the fwd inertia of the floating firing pin during chambering. The CCI #34 is a hard MILSPEC primer, but a WLR or Rem 91/2 works OK too. Federals have a reputation of being soft, so should be avoided

- the rifle should be loaded from a clip to slow down bolt velocity as a precaution against primer detonation by the floating firing pin as the bolt runs fwd into battery. Do not drop a round into the chamber and let the bolt slam closed from the fully open position. If loading w/o a clip, the round can be chambered and the op rod allowed to run fwd under hand control until half closed, and then released to close under spring pressure

Some proven, safe and accurate loads in a large number of Garands include;

150gr Hornady FMJ with 48gr IMR4064 or 47gr IMR4895, LC 68 brass, any of the primers mentioned, COL 3.280

168gr Sierra Match with 46gr IMR4064 or 45.5gr IMR 4895, LC 68 brass, any of the primers mentioned, COL 3.330

The Garand is a surprisingly accurate rifle, given the somewhat light barrel and all of the metal in motion. If the barrel is sound, stock, sights, and gas cylinder fit are tight and there are clearances established in the proper areas of metal to wood contact it can really produce with good quality handloads.

 

[buffdog]

ok - sweet... where can I find such a resource - nothing specific in either of my reload data books & I generally don't blindly trust 'the internet' is there a reliable/proven source?

I guess I should add to that, I used IMR4064 & 150g bullets for the one set of reloads I did put through it, sorry I forget the powder weight. [and they shot s**tty]

The American National Rifle Asociation has published several articles on the subject of reloaded ammunition used in the M1 Garand, including recommended loads and pressures of such loads. The standard powder used in WWII for the 30-06 was IMR-4895 and that powder was used for many years for both the 30-06 and 7.62x51 (.308) National Match accuracy loadings.
.

 

[sean69]

If it still passes the "tilt test", then it's good to go. But I'm surprised to hear that it still does operate w/o binding in view of the unusual bend that you are reporting. Any area of binding on the tube portion can be matched to the part of the rifle causing interference by an area of worn finish on the tube. The lower band or the stock ferrule are the most suspect areas for the op rod to bind when cycled. If binding occurs in these areas they can be relieved. Don't take any metal off the op rod.

never thought to try after the rod was bent ... still works perfectly...

Some tips on reloading for the Garand;

-only use IMR4064, IMR4895 or H4895. These generate the correct gas port pressure to cycle the action w/o damage. As a bonus, they will produce excellent accuracy.

-stick to 150-168gr bullets. The Hornady 150gr FMJ is about the most accurate non-match FMJ bullet going, and it is available in bulk

just looked at the box - I was using Hornady 150g FMJBT with 47.0g of IMR4064 winchester primers.

-always FL re-size your brass and don't try to get more than 5 firing cycles out of a case. The Garand is hard on brass.

My Garand bulges the case slightly [very slightly], I was told NOT to use a full length sizing die.... ? far as I can tell the only benefit would be the lifetime of the brass?

-keep cases trimmed to below max OAL

I didn't trim anything, just used the ones that were still in spec. and set aside the rest for whenever the case trimmer shows up.

The Garand is a surprisingly accurate rifle, given the somewhat light barrel and all of the metal in motion. If the barrel is sound, stock, sights, and gas cylinder fit are tight and there are clearances established in the proper areas of metal to wood contact it can really produce with good quality handloads.

It's actually on of my most accurate...

Here are some photos of the op rod showing the wear, a little difficult to see, but the bend is defiantly there {and you can feel the kink]

There is no wear at all on the top of the rod, all the wear in the middle [right where the rod exits the gas tube] is on the bottom and sides & the worst of it is on the bottom where the rear ferrule is [though I expect this is normal] the rest appears to be normal wear.

 

[Pblatzz]

Hi

Your ope rod is fine, You have a Post WWII, all op rods were made with the stress relief radius "built in. Drawing number D35382 as on you op rod pict.

There is suppose to be a bend on the op rod as pictured, to allow fro a rise from under the barrel to the gas block. If you rifle does the tilt test, it's not bent.

I googled some picts.

from AR15.com

You can see it installed

from gun&game

 

[purple]

I suspect that the op rod "bows" somewhat during it's recoil cycle, so that is where you are getting some interference with the inner surface of the stock ferrule. This can be relieved somewhat with a circular file. But if the rifle passes the "tilt test" as is, then it's no biggie.

In addition to bumping the case shoulder back, one of the reasons for FL resizing is to reduce the radial dimension of the fired case. If the case is too wide at some point in the body, then it may not fully chamber with the result that the bolt will stop short of full closure thus leading to a possible out of battery detonation. In theory the safety bridge of the receiver interacts with the tail of the firing pin to mitigate this problem, but parts do wear, and none of these rifles are any younger than 60 yrs or so. I saw this once in an M14 with the same basic operating system.

Partially resized or crush fitting cases aren't a problem in a bolt rifle as the great camming power of the bolt will allow it to close on an insufficiently resized case. This is missing in a Garand which only relies on the power of the operating spring to close the bolt.

 

[smellie]

Your ammo is a bit hot but not horridly so.

MilSpec for the .30M2 Ball load was a 152-grain pointed flatbase bullet (gilding-metal jacket and scrap-lead core) at 2800 MV. It was loaded with the powder we now call IMR-4895.

The original 1906 loading used a 150-grain pointed flatbase bullet with a cupro-nickel jacket and MV of 2700. It was loaded with Pyro D, which you aren't likely to run into.

Specs on the M2 Ball have not changed since it was produced during War Two.

Comparing this to your fresh ammo, the factory stuff is about 10% hotter than the rifle was used at. Your 165s are coming out at 150 velocities.

Be interesting to chronograph a few rounds, see just how accurate the factory figures are. Often, the factories will overstate MVs.

Hope this helps.
.
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[sean69]

just shot 40 rounds of Hornady 165g HPBT in front of 49.0g of IMR 4064. looks like this:

[the one on the right ]

 

[na1lb0hm]

just shot 40 rounds of Hornady 165g HPBT in front of 49.0g of IMR 4064. [the one on the right ]

your loads might not be too hot velocity wise, but they are maybe bordering a touch warm.

I see that 49gr of 4064 with 165 does about 2750, I run my 150's around that with 48 gr of 4064.

In addition to what purple said about the camming power of the bolt w/ FL sizing, the shooter can also "feel" when a round is tight, or needs additional force to close, indicating a possible problem.

 

[purple]

The Sierra 165 HPBT has always been a good performer in Garands with 46 or 46.5 gr IMR4064. Some rifles will shoot a bit better with IMR4895, but overall IMR4064 tends to be more accurate with 150-168gr bullets. It's a bit bulky for good metering, but if you throw your charges a bit low and then trickle up to the desired charge weight it's worth the extra time.