Berger 7mm 180gr HYBRID Coming

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Mystic Precision

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New bullet just released. Quick chat with Bryan Litz is very exciting. The new shape is supposed to be easier to tune but still offer a high/higher BC.

His testing shows a G1 BC or 0.674 G7 of .345. If pointed, he suggests up to 8% increase - theoretical GI 0.727 G7 .372.

By comparison, Berger 180gr 7mm Target VLD is G1 - 0.659, G7 - 0.337
Sierra MK 240gr 30 cal G1 - 0.647 G7 - 0.332
Sierra MK 300gr 338cal G1 - 0.745 G7 - 0.381

It will have a larger meplat despite the higher BC so pointing will be a great aid.

Yes, I can offer the Whidden bullet pointers but they are presently on backorder

I have shot the 180gr Target VLD and have had no issues getting these to work superbly.

These Hybrids are supposed to be even better????

I will be getting a very small amount and will offer test amounts to shooters with interest. No idea on pricing yet but it should be similar to the target VLD

If interested to get a few boxes, please PM or email at info@mysticprecision.com

Will hopefully use this post to report back info on loading and the quirks of this bullet.

Jerry
 
Yep.

But how do these bullets shoot?

I know that the throating will be different so some may not want to jump to this bullet yet.

Only a few more boxes available so let me know ASAP.

Thanks,

Jerry
 
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/

Gives you an explanation.

The Meplat on these new bullets will also very large but I have been told they still fly well with a higher BC - to me that sounds counterintuitive but they have the test gear.

Pointing will be a big aid to this family of bullets. Another cost and potential for ooops so the real world potential of these bullets may not be for everyone.

And yes, the throating on the chamber will likely change too. From the article above, it seems the throats would need to be longer which is fine except this may limit options for lighter bullets or those with stubbier profiles.

The bullet shape may also have issues going subsonic so may not be ideal for extremely LR shooting.

The numbers look fantastic but the proof will be after sending a bunch down range.

Jerry
 
kimberman said:
Pardon my stupidity but...... what is a "hybrid" bullet?
Click to expand...

berger33802.gif


Practical Considerations — Load Length and Twist Rate
The superior ballistic performance of the 300gr Hybrid .338 is primarily due to the very long ogive and boat tail. However, that super-long bullet length can create some issues. Berger’s new .338 Hybrid bullets are so long that loaded rounds may not fit some magazines comfortably, unless you deep-seat the bullets, which cuts down on usable case capacity. If your loaded rounds with the new .338s are too long for your magazine, single-feeding is recommended. In addition, and this is IMPORTANT, to get optimal performance with the new bullets, you may want to extend the throat in your chamber. This can be done relatively easily by a competent gunsmith using a throating reamer. We caution, however, once the throat is pushed out, you can’t go back to a shorter throat without setting back the entire barrel.

The new .338 Hybrid bullets should stabilize well with a 1:10″ twist at the velocities achievable with popular .338 magnum cartridges. However, according to Bryan Litz, Berger’s Ballistician, at extreme long ranges (beyond one mile), as the .388 bullet goes trans-sonic, it may need more spin. As the bullet slows down into the trans-sonic range, extra stability is required — something you get by spinning the bullet faster. So, for those guys planning to shoot at one mile or beyond, Berger recommends a faster twist-rate. The faster twist provides more spin-stabilization at very long ranges. But for 1000-yard shooting, you don’t need to be concerned about trans-sonic stability. As Bryan explains: “So as long as you keep your shots under 1 mile, the 1:10″ twist is plenty adequate.”
 
"As the bullet slows down into the trans-sonic range, extra stability is required — something you get by spinning the bullet faster. So, for those guys planning to shoot at one mile or beyond, Berger recommends a faster twist-rate. The faster twist provides more spin-stabilization at very long ranges. "

This is the part I don't understand. As a bullet slows down, the effect of spin stabilization GOES UP - rotational inertia degrades slower then velocity. As is also described by Bryan in his book.

Sooooo, what's up?

We will have to wait and just send some over the horizon and see what happens :)

Jerry
 
Wow... thats beyond my imagination, for now. SMK's and berger vld's have been working good for me. I'll be looking forawrd to hearing how they turn out.
 
I am thinking that Berger is having issues with their VLD's somewhere along the line to go and make these changes. Of course this is only speculation on my part.

This is all they need is another line of bullets that they can create back orders for. :jerkit:
 
No, Bryan indicated to me that it was their goal the have the BC'iest bullets in every caliber and that they had some catching up to do in .243 and .308. Plus, they didn't have any .338 bullets. The 7mm change is probably because that is what Bryan himself shoots in competition.
 
mysticplayer said:
"As the bullet slows down into the trans-sonic range, extra stability is required — something you get by spinning the bullet faster. So, for those guys planning to shoot at one mile or beyond, Berger recommends a faster twist-rate. The faster twist provides more spin-stabilization at very long ranges. "

This is the part I don't understand. As a bullet slows down, the effect of spin stabilization GOES UP - rotational inertia degrades slower then velocity. As is also described by Bryan in his book.

Sooooo, what's up?

We will have to wait and just send some over the horizon and see what happens :)

Jerry
Click to expand...

Stability increases as the bullet slows down UNTIL the bullet slows to transonic speeds. As the bullet slows down from the muzzle to ~1200 fps stability increases because the ratio of spin to forward velocity is increasing and the aerodynamic overturning torque is diminishing with it. However as the bullet slows to transonic speeds, the aerodynamic coefficients (and torques) related to bullet stability go thru some abrupt changes and overwhelm the trend of increasing stability. Some bullets are able to negotiate transonic speeds without loosing stability, others aren't. It's very difficult to predict. In general, the longer bullets have more trouble than the shorter bullets but it's something you have to try to know for sure.

The large meplats on the 6mm 105's came about for a different reason than the large meplas on the new 7mm's. The new 7mm's were given larger meplat in an effort to combat OAL and meplat diameter variations which cause inconsistencies in BC. The larger meplats have about 30% less variation than the original 180 VLD's, so from that point of view they're a success. The best solution would be to make the small meplat's more consistent but this is very challenging long term project. The new 7mm's are able to achieve lower drag than the originals despite their wider tips because of other design features. The new 7mm's have longer BT's at 7 degrees instead of 9. They also have longer noses, all of which act to lower the drag. The wider tip is the only part of the bullet that's higher drag, and it's not enough to dominate the overall drag. Because the meplat is larger, these bullets benefit more than average from pointing the tips. A 2 to 4% increase in BC is typical for pointing 'small tip' bullets. However these 'large tip' bullets benefit by 8% (this has been directly measured).

The hybrid ogives appear to be achieving their goals of combining the strengths of tangent and VLD ogives (low drag and insensitivity to seating depth). So far they've only been made in 7mm and .338. The hybrid concept is growing to other calibers; 6mm and .30 cal next, then 6.5mm. It will be a long time before hybrids are available in these other calibers so I won't share anymore info on them at this time other than to say we're embracing the hybrid concept.

Take care,
-Bryan
 
Bryan, thanks for the info.

For those that showed an interest in trying these bullets, I will be contacting you shortly as I have pricing and delivery timing.

Given the small initial order, the number of boxes per shooter will be limited but I can always get more.

Jerry
 
bryan, has berger ever considered pointing the bullets at the factory so then it is done correctly/ consistently, as opposed to me having to go out and buy a pointing setup and learning through experimentation.
 
New technology ... Each 'hybrid' has a miniature Chinese battery installed, good for the life of the bullet...
 
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