Berger Bullet Inconsistency ** You might want to read**

[skooch]

I finally found a source and purchased some 30 Cal 175 gr. VLD's for the first time last week and I am truly amazed. I decided to pick up more but the problem now is that the BC's were differnt on the new 175 gr VLD's. The first box (Lot#1498) states a BC of 0.528, the new boxes I bought (Lot#1587) state a BC of 0.498. This inconsistency troubles me. If there is that great a deviation from lot to lot I may not be able to count on the VLD's. The Berger website states the BC is 0.528 but has this changed? Or will the BC change lot to lot? I sent Berger an email and they responded within an hour (impressive). Here was the response:

Hello Jeff,

Please excuse an overly eager decision on my part for causing your confusion. I an effort to constantly improve our products and the shooting experience we started working with a very knowledgeable ballistician who is able to provide very accurate BC numbers. Our method in the past was consistent but it did produce BC numbers that were consistently 4% to 6% high.

Once we learned this I was eager to get the more accurate BC out to the shooters as quickly as possible. I gave instruction to immediately have the labels changed and to update all our reference data. Unfortunately, the labels were easy to change but the website is not. We are nearly finished with a complete revision of the website which will include these new BC figures.

The BC of .498 that you see on your box is the most accurate BC number we can produce. The bullets themselves have not changed in any way. Our ability to provide more accurate BC is the only thing that has changed. I am committed to providing you and every shooter with good information and did not want to delay the release of this data one moment longer than possible.

I apologize for the confusion this has caused. I can assure you that the bullets are exactly the same and will shoot as well as they always have for you.

Regards,

Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
Executive Vice President
NRA Life Member

Active Rifle Shooter
Berger Bullets

 

[Mystic Precision]

Berger is certainly one of the most proactive manf of reloading components in the market place. Their initial BC numbers were most likely generated from computer/form programs aided by the bullet die maker.

What they found was on occasion, real world shooting didn't support their 'projected' numbers. No good.

As Eric illustrates, they are now doing ALOT of testing by doing real world shooting. There is some info on 6mmBR and Benchrestcentral on their test procedures. Certainly covers the bases.

Now the numbers are reportably much more reliable and my own shooting backs this up with the bullets I have shot.

As for bullet consistency, those who shoot these bullets will atest that the bullets are good to go out of the box, box after box. Berger uses one bullet die to make their entire run. They most certainly announce when a new die is going into service.

I hope that the Bergers continue to work well for you and you now have another solid supplier for these wonderful bullets...
Jerry

 

[c4pyro]

i think its nice to see a company that can honestly say, this is the most accuratey BC we ahve come up with. Lower then we origianlly thought, but thats what it is. i have a feeling that should this method be used on every other bullet maker, we would find simialr results. Either way, I shoot em, i love em, and won't change a thing in my load, just maybe plug the new BC into my program and see what happens. If the shoot consistent, everything else is just comparing numbers....my bc is better then your bc...

 

[CyaN1de]

It has been well known that Berger's "claimed" BC in the past has been on the high side.

Making a ballistics table based on their claimed BC's and using the come-ups in that ballistics table in real world application rarely (if ever) worked for me as it should right from 300m back to 900m. First shots off the mound would ALWAYS land much lower than projected. 1moa at 900m is about 10"....it doesn't take many of those to run you right off the target face and not know where the hell you are elevation wise.

I think, now that they will be using real world numbers, that making a ballistics table will be much more accurate than previously.

 

[Obtunded]

Firts of all, I am a complete fan of Berger bullets. They work in everything well. Having said that, Berger has cuased me a great deal of frustration because they DO use only a single set of dies. As their production run gets on, the dimensions of their bullets change and I have found - after buying bullets in lots of 1000 or more, that one must often completely re-develop a load when switching from lot to lot.

The imfamous "Pink Boxes" were a good example... their 105 VLDS in those boxes are a very different bullet from what is comingout of their current dies. (Too bad because I really liked the way they shot).

I still ove 'em and I think most of the shooters I know use them. If I could make 6mm Lapuas work, I would happily use them but in spite of being the most consistent bullet in every regard, my rifles have been cursed with an aversion to them.

 

[lejarretnoir]

Just a few observations/experiences from having visited Berger Bullets back in the day when Walt was running it and ready to retire.

Yes, single die operations was the game plan. Like most operations in the south west USA, the Mexicans were the work force. Not putting that down, but everywhere I've went in the south west is what you find in the vast majority of the work force.

I've had lots that shot superbly and some that shot poorly. Same load, same gun. I've won and lost matches based on that. Their BC's have always been on the high side because I shot 140gr Bergers and 142gr Sierras side by side at the same time and rifle as a test and elevation was almost exactly within ½ MOA @ 900meters. I always looked at Bergers based on my experience. Don't let me convince you they are not the best around.

Overall in the F-Class game, Sierra and Lapua reign supreme for me. Most consistent lot to lot.