Berrys .45ACP 185gr HBRN load data

[tactical_tech]

I just picked up some berrys 185gr HBRN in .45 ACP but am having a hard time finding load data and COAL specs for it. I'm using IMR SR4756. My hornady 9th edition only lists 185gr SWC and the XTP bullets. I have a Speer manual but it doesn't list SR4756 in it. I also checked the hodgdon site as they had listings for berrys bullets for my .40 but only 185gr .45 they list is a JSWC.

As for the COAL spec, I remember reading the 185gr HBRN has the same dimensions as the 230gr RN. Is this true and if so would I be able to use COAL specs for a 230gr RN?

 

[Spawn-Inc]

It has the same or close to profile of a 230gr bullet so seat it to that length, or better yet seat it to fit your specific gun via a drop test. The round shout drop in and out by its own weight.

Use what ever data for the same or close to bullet weight and work up from the starting load.

Because it's a hollow base round there is some extra space so your pressures will be lower.

 

[Ganderite]

It has the same or close to profile of a 230gr bullet so seat it to that length, or better yet seat it to fit your specific gun via a drop test. The round shout drop in and out by its own weight.

Use what ever data for the same or close to bullet weight and work up from the starting load.

Because it's a hollow base round there is some extra space so your pressures will be lower.

Yes, use the same OAL as a 230, but chamber a round, push it in with your thumb and then make sure it will fall out with gravity. This confirms the bullet is not engaging the rifling. Would not hurt if you had to seat it 20 thou deeper.

If a bullet is hollow base, the shank section seated in the case has to be longer, to give more material (weight) to make up for the cavity. So even with a hollow base bullet, the powder space is unchanged and pressures are the same as a flat base bullet.

 

[tactical_tech]

Ok, so I'll use COAL for a 230gr RN, but make sure to do a drop test as well to make sure it doesn't engage the rifling.

As for the load, if I use my hornaddy manual for a 185gr bullet, it has a min load of 8.2 and max of 9.1.
If I look at the hogdgon site it has a min of 7.4 and max of 8.2.

So I'm still a little confused for a starting load.

 

[Spawn-Inc]

Yes, use the same OAL as a 230, but chamber a round, push it in with your thumb and then make sure it will fall out with gravity. This confirms the bullet is not engaging the rifling. Would not hurt if you had to seat it 20 thou deeper.

If a bullet is hollow base, the shank section seated in the case has to be longer, to give more material (weight) to make up for the cavity. So even with a hollow base bullet, the powder space is unchanged and pressures are the same as a flat base bullet.

i guess that makes sense. the hollow base becomes moot since you seat it deeper then a normal 185gr bullet.

Ok, so I'll use COAL for a 230gr RN, but make sure to do a drop test as well to make sure it doesn't engage the rifling.

As for the load, if I use my hornaddy manual for a 185gr bullet, it has a min load of 8.2 and max of 9.1.
If I look at the hogdgon site it has a min of 7.4 and max of 8.2.

So I'm still a little confused for a starting load.

i would start at 7.4gr and work up until you get an accurate load. obviously watch for pressure signs, etc.

 

[Ganderite]

I would load 10 in 0.5 increments, from 7.0 to 9.0, and see what groups best. 7.0 is enough to work the action, and one of those loads should stand out as better than the others.

Assuming you can shoot well enough to see the difference....

 

[RSA1]

Hi, Some comments on the 185gr Berry HBRN plated bullets, based on my experience.

Firstly, I have not ever reloaded with SR4756, so my comments are based on AutoComp and Unique, both for regular loads and +P loads, all fired from a 5" Ruger 1911 pistol.

Bullets are not the same, even if they have the same weight, so follow the advice given above and start below maximum loads and work up to a safe maximum, which you cannot do without a chronograph, as it is not possible to look at the primer and case to accurately judge the pressure, especially in a "low pressure" round such as the 45 ACP. The bullets with a thin copper plating will be shorter than a bullet with a thicker copper jacket, and the 185gr Berry HBRN has the same basic shape as a typical 230 FMJ, but is shorter. From my reloading stocks, just the following data for bullet length and COL:
A) 185gr Hornady XTP = 13,45mm
B) 185gr Berry HBRN = 15,20mm
C) 230gr Frontier CMJ plated = 16,76mm
D) 230gr Remington FMJ = 16,84mm

My 185gn Berry HBRN reloads were loaded to a COL of 32,00mm, while the RP factory 230gn FMJ are 31,92mm and the WinClean 230gr FN are 30,70mm.

Therefore, looking at the bullet lengths and COL given, using the 185gr Berry HBRN seated out to the same COL as the 230gr RP FMJ bullet, you already have 1,5mm more case capacity, plus the volume of the hollow base. Does this make a difference? Not really. For me to get the 185gr Hornady XTP to feed reliably in the 1911 platform (I also tried it in a 4.5" Norinco Commander a few years ago) the bullets also need to be seated out quite far, thus giving more/safe case capacity.

I have previously also had the opinion that the 185gr Berry HB bullets will be able to get higher safe velocities, as was possible with the THV bullets of a few decades ago, but my chronograph data shows that with max loads of Unique and AutoComp I am very close to actual trusted commercial load data from the BIG guys. I would suggest that any load giving you close to 1050ft/s (using slow pistol powders, not stuff such as 231), is already exceeding max factory specs, and any load giving 1100ft/s from a 5" barrel is a +P load, or may even be +P+. Do not work with these high velocities, as it does not give you any real benefit, and will accelerate wear on your pistol.

In my pistol, and using the 185gr Berry HBRN and CCI regular primers (both small and large depending on case type), the recoil is very snappy with the regular max powder loads as published by manufacturers, and extremely snappy with +P loads.

The only advantage I can think of using the 185gr Berry HBRN bullet and max loads, is getting the higher velocity of a light bullet, which may be useful when shooting moving targets, swingers, runners, etc., but it does change the felt recoil to something similar to my Glock 27 (4.2" barrel) when shooting 180gr factory max or +P loads) and not the comfortable push of the regular 230gr 45 ACP load at 850ft/s.

RSA1

 

[silverfoxdj]

Tagged..

 

[tactical_tech]

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. I'm still new to reloading so I'm still climbing that learning curve. I ended up starting from 7.0gr and going to 8.5gr in .3gr increments, loaded 5 of each. I loaded them to 1.210", so hopefully that'll work, I loaded up a few dummy rounds and made sure they would cycle and drop freely out of the barrel when I pushed them in with my thumb. I don't have a chronograph yet but it's on the list. Hopefully I'll be able to get out to the range soon, when it's not snowing and minus -45. I'll report back with what find. Hopefully my skills will hold up enough to see a difference.Thanks again.

 

[RSA1]

Hi tactical_tech,

Regarding the COL of 1.210" mentioned above, you need to establish that it works in your pistol (3 requirements):

1) Firstly, see that it fits the chamber of your pistol. Drop a reloaded round into your barrel (works best with the barrel removed and held vertical) and it must fully enter the chamber and stop with a solid clunk as the case mouth headspaces off the front end of the chamber. When you then turn the barrel upside down, the reload must fall out freely;

2) Load at least 3 rounds in your magazine (if a single stack 1911 type, or at least 4-5 if a double stack such as the Glock 21) and check that these reloads fit the magazine. In my Ruger and Kimber magazines (for my 1911) a COL of 1.210" fits well, while the max COL of 1.275" shown in my Speer #14 reloading manual is too long and does not fit into my mags;

3) The last requirement is for the reloads to reliably feed from your magazine into the barrel. Most (decent) 1911 will reliably feed 230gr RN bullets. If you want to shoot SWC such as 200gr or even 185gr, you may need to start with a long COL and gradually reduce the COL until you find the optimum COL which will ensure reliable feeding in your pistol. You may need to have the feed ramp polished, but others will be able to give you better guidance regarding this aspect.

RSA1

 

[tactical_tech]

Hi tactical_tech,

Regarding the COL of 1.210" mentioned above, you need to establish that it works in your pistol (3 requirements):

1) Firstly, see that it fits the chamber of your pistol. Drop a reloaded round into your barrel (works best with the barrel removed and held vertical) and it must fully enter the chamber and stop with a solid clunk as the case mouth headspaces off the front end of the chamber. When you then turn the barrel upside down, the reload must fall out freely;

2) Load at least 3 rounds in your magazine (if a single stack 1911 type, or at least 4-5 if a double stack such as the Glock 21) and check that these reloads fit the magazine. In my Ruger and Kimber magazines (for my 1911) a COL of 1.210" fits well, while the max COL of 1.275" shown in my Speer #14 reloading manual is too long and does not fit into my mags;

3) The last requirement is for the reloads to reliably feed from your magazine into the barrel. Most (decent) 1911 will reliably feed 230gr RN bullets. If you want to shoot SWC such as 200gr or even 185gr, you may need to start with a long COL and gradually reduce the COL until you find the optimum COL which will ensure reliable feeding in your pistol. You may need to have the feed ramp polished, but others will be able to give you better guidance regarding this aspect.

RSA1

Thanks for the advice. Before I began loading the batch, I did make a few dummy rounds and tried them in the barrel of my kimber. They dropped in easily and fell out easily, I also loaded them into a magazine and cycled them through the action and they fed like normal.