Bersa Thunder 9 and cast bullets

[kg]

The current Thunder 9 seem to all have polygonal barrels (right?).

The owner of a .45 model wrote on an other forum that accuracy of his gun went from 4 to two inches when he replaced his poly barrel with an older standard one, shooting standard ammo.

So has anybody been able to evaluate these new polygonal barrels, most specifically in 9mm, with cast or swagged bullets?

Thanks in advance

 

[Ganderite]

I am not familiar with the Bersa.

I am familiar with firearm testing.

Don't assume the improvement was due to the style of rifling.

First, unless I see before and after groups (and several of them - and not just cherry picked groups) shot from a machine rest, with the same ammo, I am not convinced there has been an improvement in grouping.

Second, until I see an improvement in a number of barrel swaps (and must be all the swaps, not just cherry picking) then I am not convinced that the improvement is just a unique result.


Third, barrels in production guns, especially cheap guns, are a fairly loose fit. When a new barrel is installed, it might be tighter. Especially if the barrel requires fitting by a gunsmith. If there was an improvement, it may be because the new barrel was a better fit. Nothing to do with rifling style.

I shoot lead bullets in a Glock (polygonal) and get superb results.

 

[Spawn-Inc]

i shoot lead in any barrel and outside of my aim i haven't noticed a decrease or improvement in accuracy using the same loads for plated/jacketed/lead.

 

[ambishooter]

Several shooters in our club uses Glock and Jericho which uses polygonal barrels. I do not remember them complaining against the use of lead for accuracy. You just need to clean your barrel more frequent.

 

[Bushbum40]

I am not familiar with the Bersa.

I am familiar with firearm testing.

Don't assume the improvement was due to the style of rifling.

First, unless I see before and after groups (and several of them - and not just cherry picked groups) shot from a machine rest, with the same ammo, I am not convinced there has been an improvement in grouping.

Second, until I see an improvement in a number of barrel swaps (and must be all the swaps, not just cherry picking) then I am not convinced that the improvement is just a unique result.


Third, barrels in production guns, especially cheap guns, are a fairly loose fit. When a new barrel is installed, it might be tighter. Especially if the barrel requires fitting by a gunsmith. If there was an improvement, it may be because the new barrel was a better fit. Nothing to do with rifling style.

I shoot lead bullets in a Glock (polygonal) and get superb results.

Wow. Ganderite, you should be a judge. Your one tuff guy to convince! lol

 

[Ganderite]

Wow. Ganderite, you should be a judge. Your one tuff guy to convince! lol

No.

I used to work in a ballistics research lab. Many times I got excited over a test result and thought I had discovered something, but my boss would look at it and say "Not statistically valid". Sometimes we would do a follow up test (often involving 5,000 to 25,000 rounds of ammo) and so far as I recall, each time the "result" of the first test got debunked.

So my experience is to ignore a simple test result involving one gun.

 

[ss1980]

Cast or other soft bullets (not FMJ) are not recommended to be shot from polygonal barrels. Why? The lead shavings clog up the polygonal rifling so bad that it can mount up the chamber pressure to dangerous levels and blow the whole thing up in pieces.

Why would you use non-FMJ bullts if ammo is dirt cheap these days from Tulammo and others?

The current Thunder 9 seem to all have polygonal barrels (right?).

The owner of a .45 model wrote on an other forum that accuracy of his gun went from 4 to two inches when he replaced his poly barrel with an older standard one, shooting standard ammo.

So has anybody been able to evaluate these new polygonal barrels, most specifically in 9mm, with cast or swagged bullets?

Thanks in advance

 

[tjhaile]

Apparently, someone forgot to tell Sir Joseph Whitworth that polygonal rifling is incompatible with lead bullets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_rifle

I would not hesitate to shoot cast bullets through any polygonal-rifled pistol. You just need to be more diligent about monitoring lead fouling.

 

[One Lung Wonder]

Apparently, someone forgot to tell Sir Joseph Whitworth that polygonal rifling is incompatible with lead bullets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_rifle

I would not hesitate to shoot cast bullets through any polygonal-rifled pistol. You just need to be more diligent about monitoring lead fouling.

Is it even an issue with hard cast lead tjhaile? I personally won't shoot cast lead in a polygonal barrel because I'm craven - the gun geeks over at the HK Forum seem to produce KABOOMS on a regular basis from cast lead even though the vast majority of them will agree with you rather than me.

And - I agree with Gander...there is more ballistical statistical turd polishing going on in our sport than you can shake a stick at. Cherries are good in pies but not in statistics and performance analysis.

 

[tjhaile]

See post #4 here:
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/145053-lead-polygonal-debate-challenge.html

G3Kurz is Jim Schatz, who formerly held a number of senior positions with HK-USA and thus might be expected to have some expertise on the subject.

People who are blowing up polygonal rifled pistols with lead bullets are using defective reloads and/or completely neglecting lead fouling. Inspect your bore after a couple hundred rounds or so. If it is heavily leaded at that point, make a point of using a bore brush wrapped in either bronze wool or copper scouring pad material after every range trip.