Best gun and caliber for first time smith work- have I found the perfect everything?

A

aesache

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Hi everyone


I am new to posting here but have been a long time viewer of the forum. I want to try my hand at reloading and making a unique and useful firearm that not everyone has. I have a long list of criteria that must be met and have read mountains of threads on various items guns and calibers.

My firearm that I will be starting with is a 223 savage axis with a very worn barrel (slugs at 227!!!!) the rest of the unit is very good.

Here are my criteria
1- cheap everything- I can afford a barrel but that is about it
2- ammo must be readily available and Cheap!!!! 10cents a round is my goal I do cast so that helps
3- must be a decent shooter to 200 yard 300 max
4- project must be beginner friendly
5- should be slightly out of the ordinary I don't want something everyone else has but it does not have to be one of a kind
6-must be fun to shoot( this is kinda the point right)
7-must be capable of varmint control up to coyote


Ok so after all that research here is what I have come up with. I would like all your opinions as to if I got it right

1-Savage barrels are cheap so that first point it done and I think a barrel swap is a good start for someone who has never messed with a gun

2- I am going to have to cast to get 10 cent rounds I know that brass need to be free so I thought about subsonic 308 but cases are to hard to find at the range. 223 is cheap but I am not going to get into swaging and cast 223 I can find almost no info on(I use wheel weights to cast) then I read about the subsonic 300blk I can use 223 cases and cast so the only thing that would cost money is powder and primers. Thoughts on this?

3- is 300 blackout ok to 300? I am ok with a rainbow trajectory 90% of shooting will be 150-200meters anyone have any expierience

4- is this beginner friendly?

5- is this more common than I think or will this be a "hey that's neat" conversation piece at the range

6- I love 22lr and 223 will this be equally fun to shoot. If I can't hit anything that's no fun

7- will it kill a coyote. I don't like follow up shots to be necessary


Ok guys gimme your expertise... Good idea or bad


P.s. I thought about 223 ack but 10 cents a round seemed like a pipe dream
 
Is the Axis bolt set up with a recess for the case head or is it flat so it could accept a range of head diameters?

I ask this because if the bolt is limited to that size case head it really reduces your options. I don't see a lot of standard sizes based on .223 case design.

The other issue is that a cast bullet either has to be paper patched or use a gas check to achieve a muzzle velocity of much over 1500fps. Otherwise it's going to lead up badly. And with a modest velocity of this sort you need a big lump o' lead to ensure that you have enough mass energy at 300 to take down a varmint. Also you want a big and heavy enough bullet to aid in holding what little speed it has.

Needless to say with a bullet that loafs along like this the trajectory will be rather like a rainbow. Which is fine as long as you can accept that. I shoot an old single shot in 38-55 that lobs 300gn bullets out at a whopping 1400fps give or take. I love it because for me working this slow is part of the challenge. But if you don't like the sound of that then you need to consider gas checks or paper patching to get faster.

But big and heavy means you need to go with a bigger cartridge. And that means you need to look at the face of the bolt in terms of how big it will accept given extractors and ejectors. If it's tied in too tightly to the .223 size head then I'd say that this project won't go far with this particular gun. At which point you're better off simply getting a new barrel in the original .223.

Major mods to get around this are possible of course. But such mods either cost lots or are simply not beginner friendly. Two points that you list above as being important.
 
Thanks for the reply bcrider

The bolt is recessed. But I could always get a second bolt for it there is a lot of them in my area for sale used.

Rainbow trajectory is fine I have a 45/70 which is the king of rainbow trajectory I would use this but they have expensive brass and use a lot of powder plus it's a single shot brake action and I find them a pain to shoot after a while. Ok for 10 or 20 rounds but after that it get repetitive

If I go with 300 blackout I will be pushing them 1100ish fps and it would be the lee 230gr mould that I would cast from

I already have another savage in 223 or I would just re barrel this one. I did think about doing a 223AI but I want to shoot cast bullets and the ackly improved is not likely to cooperate

So is yours a vote for something other than 300blackout? What about a 7.62x39 conversion to shoot mil surp?
 
How did you slug that barrel? Highly unlikely for an Axis to wear that much. I'd think about a 6 x 45. .223 necked up to 6mm. Not a hope of being anywhere near $.10 each though.
Where are you that there are a lot of spare parts? Just curious.
 
IMO there is not a lot of point "smithing" a Savage Axis. Putting lipstick on a pig. It is what it is, just shoot and accept its limitations. If you want to smith around, look on the EE and find a better candidate. Money ventured on the Axis will swiftly exceed its value. Like trying to hot rod a 86 hyundai pony.
 
No way that barrel has worn to .227 from normal use or even hard use. if it does indeed measure as you say then it was manufactured that way otherwise better check your slugging method or measuring method.
 
Randy B said:
No way that barrel has worn to .227 from normal use or even hard use. if it does indeed measure as you say then it was manufactured that way otherwise better check your slugging method or measuring method.
Click to expand...

Yes it's true the rifling is almost completely gone from the muzzle end. I used a soft lead ball and a wood dowel to drive it through the chamber end this measured 225 if you drive the ball from the muzzle end about 4 inches in and then back out it measures 227. I used a vernier to measure this. I will give you all a little background on the gun. This was a well used 223 that a friend of mine had (I just read it and it actually is a savage edge stamped on it) he upgraded to a model 10. He is a firearm safety instructor. In his class the students are required to clean the rifle (along with a number of other tasks) in order to demonstrate safe handling and care of a firearm. So this firearm has been cleaned, likely improperly, about a billion times. I suspect that is why it is so worn. The bore is also quite out of round. I traded 1000 cast 230grn 45acp bullets for the gun

Nowarningshot- I agree with the lipstick on a pig comment however if I screw this gun up so be it after all it is just an axis. If on the other hand I go out and buy a savage model 10 or other nice more expensive rifle and mess it up I will spend many a night weeping in my pillow. On the other hand if it works out well I can always put this barrel on a nicer action



Sunray- I just read up on 6mmx45. Very cool and defiantly something I would be interested in though like you said no way 10cents a round is possible. I may revisit this one though.
I am located in London Ontario and have a ton of gun auctions that happen near me as well as a number of friends with spare parts we barter and trade all the time.


I think subsonic is the way to go. What about a purpose built subsonic 223?

While no one has said it yet is the general consensus 300blackout is a bad idea?
 
No, the 300 BLK isn't a bad idea. Neither is the Axis. The beauty of it is if the action craps out for some reason, the barrel will fit any small shank Savage or Stevens 200 action. The 300BLK isn't something I would shoot an animal with at 300yds but it would be fun lobbing lead at steel targets and paper. The Lee 230gr boolit is kinda crappy because they tried to make it a boat tail. There are other options from better manufacturers such as NOE, MP and ACE molds. I say go for it. All you need it a barrel. Everything else will work including the magazine.
 
I think you'd have more fun making a 7.62x39 for your first project. It works well for cast bullets as I've seen in cast bullet forums and you can shoot cheap milsurp for fun.
It was one of my first 'smith' projects on various Mausers in that caliber. If you can change or bore out the Axis bolthead to PPC boltface and covert the .223 magazine to shoot 7.62x39, you're on your way.
300 yds is about maxed out for the 7.62x39 never mind the smaller 300 BLK.
 
lejarretnoir said:
I think you'd have more fun making a 7.62x39 for your first project. It works well for cast bullets as I've seen in cast bullet forums and you can shoot cheap milsurp for fun.
It was one of my first 'smith' projects on various Mausers in that caliber. If you can change or bore out the Axis bolthead to PPC boltface and covert the .223 magazine to shoot 7.62x39, you're on your way.
300 yds is about maxed out for the 7.62x39 never mind the smaller 300 BLK.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll find a bolt head for the Axis bolt in 7.62x39. They never offered the Axis / Edge in 7.62x39 like they did the model 10.
 
Further to my earlier post I wanted to hear back about the bolt face issue first before going further.

And don't ask me why but I had it locked in my mind that the .300 blackout was based on a different casing with a bigger head diameter. I've since looked it up and see that it's based off the .223 casing. So for shooting cast bullets I'd say that this is truly a winner of an idea to barrel it up with a suitable twist rate and chambered in 300 blackout. That way you don't need to swap the bolt and it keeps the whole project firmly in the "cheap" end of the pond like you were wishing for.

The key will be finding a twist rate suitable for the bullets in the 180 to 230 gn weights you're likely going to want to consider. But with so many cartridges around that shoot .308 and so many barrels set up for the variety of weights I suspect the "problem" will be choosing from a big range of options.... :D Of course then you need to get it reworked as needed to get the barrel re-chambered and threaded to suit. And I'm going to guess that the use of cast bullets will likely also suggest some rifling options that are better than others vs the far more typical use of jacketed bullets in such barrels.

Given that you will also end up with a good size hunk of the heavy bullets sticking out the front of the casings you'll want to ensure that the chambering allows for a enough throat to the rifling to let the big long fat nose bullets seat correctly.

As cheap projects go I think this one has a lot of merit. And you run the risk of having a rifle that more than a few folks end up thinking is darn nice.... :D In fact I hate to say it since I've got enough projects on the list to last any three people at least a lifetime each. But your idea is making me smile. And that often leads to adding yet another project to the list.

Going with something in the 200 to 230 weight range means that the bullet will be longer since it can't go fatter. So you'll gain both in the bullet momentum as well as the ballistics coefficient. The heavier options will carry farther out and flatter and hit hard when they do arrive. Should be just fine for taking down the varmints you're looking at hunting.
 
ok so its settled i will be making a 300 aac blackout.

anyone know any good barrel manufacturers here in canada? i have a $250 budget for a barrel is that realistic? brownells has them for 199 but i am thinking it will be a pain to export to canada.

looks like almost every 300 blackout barrel is 1-8 twist and that should work with my needs


i will keep everyone posted as parts begin to arrive.
 
I was looking at some AR style barrels since that's one of the more common platforms for shooting .300 Blackout. But it doesn't look good for being an easy mod to fit your receiver since the locking lugs are integral to the breech of the barrel.

Would you be doing your own machining or do you need to get a machinist or gunsmith to do the work?
 
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