Best muzzleloader for newbie?

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warr0088

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Hey all!

I've been thinking about getting into muzzleloading for a while now ... mainly to try something different and to get an extra week of whitetail season. I'm also looking for an alternative to my slug gun and I think a muzzleloader fits the bill.

That being said, i've never shot one before, let alone held one, but have recently done a TON of reading thus far, and have read different opinions on each firearm. I have been seriously looking into the TC Omega and Triumph, and the Savage Smokeless 10MLII. The question is, which one to settle on?

Like I said I am a total newbie and the idea of ease of use and ease of cleaning really appeal to me. At this point i'm leaning towards the Savage for these reasons and others. (Seems to have the most modern technology available / fastest fps, etc). Are there any arguments otherwise?

Any advice would be much appreciated! I want to make an informed decision the first time!

THANKS!
 
Cost wise.....Traditions and CVA have come along way, but I would lean towards a TC Omega package.

The Savage is in a league of its own. That a good choice too (if cost NOT an option).

Hakx
 
well for the first one and for the price i went with the cva wolf at under 200$ i was ready to hunt . i shot it beside my buddys 1000$ tc oncore and at 100 yards there was know differnce at all mine was sighted in faster .these guns are very easy to clean and easy to learn to shot .the real bonus is the price for less then two hundred with a scope i was ready to hunt and if i did not realy like it it would not kill me sitting in the safe for a while DUTCH
 
New ML for a newbie

I own 2 Traditions Pursuit Pro XLT (wife and son) both are serious shooter and very reliable. I also own a T/C Omega (not a z5 or any other spin off) its a shooter but cost $200 more than the Traditions.

My omega shoots .75" 3 shot groups at 1910 fps, 4 patches to swab between shots (1 wet, 3 dry)

Recently have been looking at the Savage MLII. Thinking I can get more fps and cleaner burning, not as much cleaning between shots... But after shooting one for a day, with a very accurate load developed by the owner and putting it through a chrony I have come to a few conclusions...when compared to my 100gr triple 7 load in my Omega. shooting the same bullet

1) the gun is VERY heavy. its a stainless laminate stock version. my Omega is only 7.5 lbs scoped.
2) the load is very accurate .75 3 shot group and 2150 fps with a 245 gr Barnes Spitfire (so is my Omega) but it KICKS LIKE A MULE (my Omega is a pussy cat). thank god the Savage is heavy...
3) like any ML to get best accuracy u should swab between shots 2 patches 1 wet 1 dry. again vs 4 patches that means it takes 2 less cleaning patches between rounds, big deal? not too me.
4) velocity with the accurate load immaterial.
5) the barrel gets VERY HOT VERY FAST...my Omega I can shoot all day in the summer and it NEVER gets hot.

To sum it all up...

In my findings the regular Omega (777 powder) needs 2 more patches between shots, kicks less and does not heat up the barrel. It is light to carry in the field, balance s nice and points very nice. For me it is the ML all others should be compared too...

I like the Savage accutrigger, it is very nice. I find the powder and load development very finicky and its like getting hit in the head with a brick. Its heavy and its not for me...

I am glad I looked at the smoke less it made me appreciate my Omega all over again...

my 2 cents cheers...

Sask Hunter
 
IF you are an experienced reloader and understand the basics of muzzleloaders...by all means try the savage. If either of those are new to you...I would get something else. :redface:
With the new, fingertip removable breech plugs....cleaning is dead easy. 5 minutes and you are done. :)
 
i started off with a cva bolt in-line ML ( can't remember model ) i had bought it at walmart in the states on clearance for 100$ slapped a banner on it for my fist season ML hunting. (didn't want to spend a fortune, i didn't know if i would like the whole idea of a ML) it was accurate enough for hunting. 2-3" groups at 100 yards. worked for what i needed it to do at the time. it was verryyy muzzle heavy!!!!! light syn stock. it would balance well if you tried holding it about 10" from the muzzle!!! did i mention it was barrel heavyyyy!!!;) it started rusting on the outside of the barrel even with regular cleaning and oil. i hunt with two guys that shoot omegas and have shot them often and think there a great gun. with drop breech, makes for easy cleaning. balance very well. also have a friend with a knight disk. very accurate gun. a ##### to clean and a pain in the a$$ to find disks for at times, but balances well and shoots well. sighted in a traditions pusuit xlt with an uncle this summer. i find this gun slightly barrel heavy but nothing like my old cva (did i mention the cva was very barrel heavy!!!!) i could clover leaf at 50 yards with it with good cleaning after every shot. locks up well. trigger is a little sloppy. a good gun for not a whole lot of $$$. the only real con for me is the ramrod, it's too short for cleaning. you can lengthen it but it's still to short when cleaning. i now own a tc encore witch i love with leupy vxII 3-9x50. i know a lot of people bash them. i've owned it for about 5 years (i bought it just before all the hype and maketing). a lot of cash for a newb. i bought it for the interchangable barrels. you'll never see this gun leave my ownership. i wouldn't recommend a real expensive ML for someone just getting into it. it's a lot of cleaning and i've seen too many people buy them and not clean them properly, just let them sit after a range session and wonder why the firing pin gets stuck or the bore rust and gets pitted. they are a little work. just remember that the powder is corrosive and they do need a good cleaning after every session. (did i mention that my first cva was very muzzle heavy!!) remember that i'm no pro and this is just my 2 cents.

p.s; don't buy into all the150 grain hype. 100 grains is plenty!
 
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I'd suggest staying with a black powder, I owned the CVA Wolf, not a bad little gun, cheap too. I now have a T/C Triumph, love it. Omega's are great too.

CVA apparently had a safety issue, I don't know if its true and I'm not bashing, I owned one and worked very well. Didn't fit me well though.

You can get the Wolf around $199.00, T/C Omega Z5 $329.00, Triuph $450.00.

Triumph has a nice trigger, good balance, handling,
Break open with a breech plug that can be removed with no tools.( not sure yet if its that big of a bonus)

Try to get in and test them for fit and shoot your buddies.
 
I will be installing a Bushnell Elite 3200 2X7 on my new Savage Model 10 ML-II this evening and taking it to the range for its maiden voyage tomorrow evening. I will be taking out into the field this weekend. Wish me luck.

Regards,

Chizzy
 
CVA has not had a safety issue since 1999. I believe there has been a few load related mishaps where some one decieds its a good idea to use 200gr of powder in a gun rated for 150gr or to use 150gr in a gun with out MAGNUM stamped on the barrel thats only rated for 100gr.

I just bought a CVA optima pro from BPS with a scope. With some practice I was able to shoot a 2'' 3 shot group at 150yds with 100gr of powder and a 270gr platnium powerbelt.

Like some one said above 100gr of powder is plenty for deer out to 150yds you really cant treat a muzzleloader any different then a fully rifled 12ga shotgun actually some 3'' shotgun loads out preform muzzleloader loads.
 
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if in line is the way you want to go instead of traditional then go all the way buy a savage I had one just to try out a muzzel loader that you could shoot smokeless out of just make sure you buy the Black sabots as they can take the highest pressures grouping was good . but it also gives you the option of using black or pyrodex
 
Geat, lots of replies! Thanks!

It seems like the Savage would be a bit challenging for me. I have never re-loaded before, and don't have any experience with these firearms as previously mentioned. Maybe I should just stick with BP for now. In looking at CVA, how would that compare to a TC Triumph? I have checked out the triumph-a friend has one, and he loves it.
 
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I also wanted to mention, I'm not sure if I can get ahold of CVA in my area, I've never seen them at Le Baron. (I live in Ottawa). Le Baron is really the only dealer out this way, aside from a drive to Toronto for Bass Pro. Any ideas where I might get an idea of price for their new "Accura"? (Found the CVA website, the Accura looks nice).

On that note, anybody here have experience with Accura?
 
warr0088 said:
I also wanted to mention, I'm not sure if I can get ahold of CVA in my area, I've never seen them at Le Baron. (I live in Ottawa). Le Baron is really the only dealer out this way, aside from a drive to Toronto for Bass Pro. Any ideas where I might get an idea of price for their new "Accura"? (Found the CVA website, the Accura looks nice).

On that note, anybody here have experience with Accura?
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You can mail-order any firearm right to your door. (Epps, Cabelas,WSS,BP)...but if you want to fondle it first...call around, Gunmart (Brockville)? There is also a store I heard about on the Tyendinaga(SP) Reserve near Montreal.
You can't go wrong with TC...they make good quality stuff. I've been to the factory in NH. :D
 
hmm, never heard of the websites "EPPS" "WSS" or "BP" what are they exactly? Also, it'd be nice to shoulder each one to compare.
 
warr0088 said:
I also wanted to mention, I'm not sure if I can get ahold of CVA in my area, I've never seen them at Le Baron. (I live in Ottawa). Le Baron is really the only dealer out this way, aside from a drive to Toronto for Bass Pro. Any ideas where I might get an idea of price for their new "Accura"? (Found the CVA website, the Accura looks nice).

On that note, anybody here have experience with Accura?
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Dante Sports in Montreal, small little shop, good service, they sell CVA, etc. After my brother bought one there and took a guy back to buy another the store ower gave my brother a pretty nice hunting knife for bringing someone in. They also sell everything else.
 
warr0088 said:
I also wanted to mention, I'm not sure if I can get ahold of CVA in my area, I've never seen them at Le Baron. (I live in Ottawa). Le Baron is really the only dealer out this way, aside from a drive to Toronto for Bass Pro. Any ideas where I might get an idea of price for their new "Accura"? (Found the CVA website, the Accura looks nice).

On that note, anybody here have experience with Accura?
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there's also norris bait and tackle in westport (not to far from ottawa). they may have some different ML to fondle. and as mentioned gunmart in brockville may have some to fondle. if you want to take a drive for a day!!!! on your way to epps in barrie you can stop @ gunmart right of the 416, then make a stop @ quinte outdoor sports in belleville, then after lunch make your way to basspro in vaughn and don't forget to pick a number @ the gun counter.(a lot of people get pissed off because they don't see the number picker???? don't know what they call those things....) and then a final stop @ epps. not that i've ever taken a roadtrip that way!!!!! i live just southeast of you in cornwall.
 
beefman said:
IF you are an experienced reloader and understand the basics of muzzleloaders...by all means try the savage. If either of those are new to you...I would get something else. :redface:
With the new, fingertip removable breech plugs....cleaning is dead easy. 5 minutes and you are done. :)
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what are the new fingertip removable breech plugs? I have a savage ML II - 2 1/2 years old -and I have to use the Supplied Savage wrench on mine to remove the plug. I agree cleaning is dead easy.
 
JohnC said:
what are the new fingertip removable breech plugs? I have a savage ML II - 2 1/2 years old -and I have to use the Supplied Savage wrench on mine to remove the plug. I agree cleaning is dead easy.
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Sorry...I should have been specific. :redface: I was talking about the new "Speed Breech" plugs from TC. Doesn't require tools...just turn it out by hand. :D
 
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