Best powder for short barrels

B

brybenn

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Ive got a 223 with a 16.5" barrel on it. Its shooting great groups with Sierra 55gr gamekings of which an absolute stunner load accuracy wise is only getting me 2500fps over 24.5grs varget. 27grs netted a meager 2700ish fps. I realise the short tube is killing velocity i was just curious as to whether there was a powder more suitable to short barrels chambered in 223?

On a positive note its an extremly fur friendly load
 
That powder is getting you max pressure. 27 is around max load.

2700 does not sound right. I would expect 2900 to 3000ish.

Test velocity again. (or test your powder scales.) Is the case full? Should be.
 
The case is extremely full. So much that i have to tap it in while still in the funnel. My manual says 27.5 gr as max i dont know how to get more than 27 grs in so i stopped there. I know 24.5gr varget is slightly less than starting loads. But its giving me .3" groups even though its only 2500fps. I do have a massively oversized brake on it but cant see how thats effecting velocity.
My chrono matched within 9fps for my buddies crossbow rating and was only 20fps slower than listed for his 270 factory loads and cci standard 40gr went over at 1020fps so im pretty confident in the readings. I figured id be at least 28/2900 fps with the light loads and over 3000fps at close to max. It wasnt overly cold yesterday. 12 degrees F.

Maybe ill have to drop down to a lighter bullet to get my speed up
 
If you shoot at 300 yards, is your bullet drop, or come-ups appropriate for the velocity your chronograph claims? When shooting light bullets in the .222-223 family cartridges, Winchester 748 has given me good velocities, and there is less issue with powder capacity when using ball powder, even though Varget is a very short cut extruded powder.
 
Winchester small rifle is an excellent choice.

The 16" barrel loses a lot of velocity.

If you really want more velocity with a 55 gr bullet, the only powder that will help is AA2230. Try about 25 gr.
 
If it were me, I would try a few rounds over the chrono with the brake removed, just to see if has any effect, before I started working on new loads. I am assuming it just threads on.

Jim
 
Varget is always towards the bottom of the pack for velocity. Can be great for accuracy

Code: 
Cartridge          : .223 Rem
Bullet             : .224, 55, Sierra SPBT 1365
Useable Case Capaci: 28.787 grain H2O = 1.869 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.5 inch = 419.1 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

5 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031                           102.8     25.5     1.65    3039    98.4    55000   11257   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp                     97.9     25.1     1.63    3035   100.0    55000   10573   0.781  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748                      94.4     27.0     1.75    3001    94.8    55000   11211   0.783  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      96.3     28.5     1.84    2995    92.1    55000   11348   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                    101.9     28.8     1.87    2983    91.1    55000   11241   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                           101.3     26.9     1.74    2982    91.7    55000   11390   0.792  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322                        94.9     24.5     1.58    2980    97.6    55000   10698   0.786  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       96.7     28.0     1.81    2977    93.3    55000   11263   0.792  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335                        89.4     25.9     1.68    2965    96.5    55000   10782   0.791  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       98.3     26.1     1.69    2964    92.5    55000   11116   0.794  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15                       102.0     27.1     1.75    2964    90.8    55000   11200   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL10x                       92.3     23.1     1.50    2962    99.6    55000   10323   0.798  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                           103.9     27.1     1.76    2959    91.2    55000   10814   0.780  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198                            91.6     21.8     1.41    2946    99.9    55000    9661   0.786  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208xbr                         96.7     25.7     1.66    2939    93.6    55000   10672   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                       103.2     28.0     1.81    2930    88.5    55000   10950   0.811  ! Near Maximum !
AA 1680                             80.2     22.2     1.44    2921    98.5    55000    9931   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Varget                     104.0     26.7     1.73    2921    90.5    54724   10612   0.790  ! Near Maximum !
 
todbartell said:
Varget is always towards the bottom of the pack for velocity. Can be great for accuracy

Code: 
Cartridge          : .223 Rem
Bullet             : .224, 55, Sierra SPBT 1365
Useable Case Capaci: 28.787 grain H2O = 1.869 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.5 inch = 419.1 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

5 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031                           102.8     25.5     1.65    3039    98.4    55000   11257   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp                     97.9     25.1     1.63    3035   100.0    55000   10573   0.781  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748                      94.4     27.0     1.75    3001    94.8    55000   11211   0.783  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      96.3     28.5     1.84    2995    92.1    55000   11348   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                    101.9     28.8     1.87    2983    91.1    55000   11241   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                           101.3     26.9     1.74    2982    91.7    55000   11390   0.792  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322                        94.9     24.5     1.58    2980    97.6    55000   10698   0.786  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       96.7     28.0     1.81    2977    93.3    55000   11263   0.792  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335                        89.4     25.9     1.68    2965    96.5    55000   10782   0.791  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       98.3     26.1     1.69    2964    92.5    55000   11116   0.794  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15                       102.0     27.1     1.75    2964    90.8    55000   11200   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL10x                       92.3     23.1     1.50    2962    99.6    55000   10323   0.798  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                           103.9     27.1     1.76    2959    91.2    55000   10814   0.780  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198                            91.6     21.8     1.41    2946    99.9    55000    9661   0.786  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208xbr                         96.7     25.7     1.66    2939    93.6    55000   10672   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                       103.2     28.0     1.81    2930    88.5    55000   10950   0.811  ! Near Maximum !
AA 1680                             80.2     22.2     1.44    2921    98.5    55000    9931   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Varget                     104.0     26.7     1.73    2921    90.5    54724   10612   0.790  ! Near Maximum !
Click to expand...

Thank you very much
 
todbartell said:
Varget is always towards the bottom of the pack for velocity. Can be great for accuracy

Code: 
Cartridge          : .223 Rem
Bullet             : .224, 55, Sierra SPBT 1365
Useable Case Capaci: 28.787 grain H2O = 1.869 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.5 inch = 419.1 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

5 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 3031                           102.8     25.5     1.65    3039    98.4    55000   11257   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp                     97.9     25.1     1.63    3035   100.0    55000   10573   0.781  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748                      94.4     27.0     1.75    3001    94.8    55000   11211   0.783  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      96.3     28.5     1.84    2995    92.1    55000   11348   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                    101.9     28.8     1.87    2983    91.1    55000   11241   0.782  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                           101.3     26.9     1.74    2982    91.7    55000   11390   0.792  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322                        94.9     24.5     1.58    2980    97.6    55000   10698   0.786  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       96.7     28.0     1.81    2977    93.3    55000   11263   0.792  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335                        89.4     25.9     1.68    2965    96.5    55000   10782   0.791  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       98.3     26.1     1.69    2964    92.5    55000   11116   0.794  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL15                       102.0     27.1     1.75    2964    90.8    55000   11200   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL10x                       92.3     23.1     1.50    2962    99.6    55000   10323   0.798  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                           103.9     27.1     1.76    2959    91.2    55000   10814   0.780  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198                            91.6     21.8     1.41    2946    99.9    55000    9661   0.786  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208xbr                         96.7     25.7     1.66    2939    93.6    55000   10672   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                       103.2     28.0     1.81    2930    88.5    55000   10950   0.811  ! Near Maximum !
AA 1680                             80.2     22.2     1.44    2921    98.5    55000    9931   0.793  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Varget                     104.0     26.7     1.73    2921    90.5    54724   10612   0.790  ! Near Maximum !
Click to expand...

Can you run that at 60,000 psi?

And can you include AA2230? My records show that to produce the most velocity.
 
Code: 
Cartridge          : .223 Rem
Bullet             : .224, 55, Sierra SPBT 1365
Useable Case Capaci: 28.787 grain H2O = 1.869 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.5 inch = 419.1 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: [COLOR=#ff0000]60000 psi,[/COLOR] or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

4 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant AR-Comp                    100.7     25.9     1.68    3113   100.0    60000   10686   0.757  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 748                      97.1     27.7     1.80    3088    96.0    60000   11517   0.758  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon CFE223                      98.9     29.3     1.90    3083    93.6    60000   11690   0.757  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 3031                           104.0     25.8     1.67    3074    98.7    56951   11353   0.772  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H322                        97.9     25.2     1.63    3066    98.4    60000   10964   0.760  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895                           104.0     27.6     1.79    3064    93.1    59496   11720   0.768  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon BL-C2                       99.3     28.8     1.86    3064    94.7    60000   11585   0.767  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4895                      101.3     26.9     1.74    3055    94.0    60000   11472   0.768  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H335                        92.2     26.7     1.73    3052    97.6    60000   11072   0.765  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot BigGame                    104.0     29.4     1.90    3049    92.3    58695   11501   0.764  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant RL10x                       95.3     23.9     1.55    3046    99.9    60000   10524   0.772  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
AA 5744                             80.7     20.5     1.33    3035   100.0    60000   10164   0.763  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 8208xbr                         99.8     26.5     1.72    3029    94.9    60000   11005   0.767  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4198                            94.8     22.6     1.46    3027   100.0    60000    9841   0.759  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant RL15                       104.0     27.6     1.79    3023    91.8    58239   11443   0.776  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
AA 1680                             83.0     23.0     1.49    3007    99.1    60000   10180   0.766  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant RL7                         89.6     23.0     1.49    3001   100.0    60000    9925   0.775  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
[B]Accurate 2230                       94.6     27.2     1.76    2996    94.1    60000   10751   0.775  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE![/B]
Hodgdon Benchmark                   98.7     25.8     1.67    2996    95.8    60000   10588   0.770  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4198                       91.9     22.9     1.48    2993    98.3    60000   10037   0.762  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot X-Terminator                96.6     27.4     1.77    2992    93.1    60000   10789   0.772  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot TAC                         98.8     28.3     1.83    2986    89.4    60000   10910   0.771  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4227                            85.8     20.8     1.35    2977   100.0    60000    9201   0.753  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320                           104.0     27.1     1.76    2961    91.3    55103   10821   0.780  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H380                       104.0     28.2     1.83    2955    89.0    56357   11051   0.803  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Varget                     104.0     26.7     1.73    2921    90.5    54724   10612   0.790  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
 
I've measured a few 55gr factory loads with my Labradar from my Ruger 16.5" 1:8 barrel

Aguila FMJ - 2929 fps
Hornady SP - 2873
Winchester VX - 2900

My 55gr handload with IMR 4198 :

Code: 
[TABLE="width: 192"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 64"]Stats - Average[/TD]
[TD="width: 64, align: right"]2816.84[/TD]
[TD="width: 64"]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Highest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2879.4[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Lowest[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2787.29[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Ext. Spread[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]92.12[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stats - Std. Dev[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.91[/TD]
[TD]fps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Shot ID[/TD]
[TD]V0[/TD]
[TD]V50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2840[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2644[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2827[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2620[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2797[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2597[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2801[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2605[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2797[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2595[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2813[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2606[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2813[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2609[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2787[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2591[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2813[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2626[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2879[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2634[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Damn. How do you get 27 grains of Varget in a 223 case? I load 24.5 under 75 grain match bullets and i can hear the crunch when i seat the bullet.

I know Hodgon has a range of max loads from 24-27grains with 55 grain bullets. Im fairly new to reloading, but Im surprised you aren't cratering primers with that load.

I much prefer heavier bullets in the 223 with short barrels. Less blast and flash and Varget seems to ring the best velocity out of the heavier pills.
 
jparent said:
Damn. How do you get 27 grains of Varget in a 223 case? I load 24.5 under 75 grain match bullets and i can hear the crunch when i seat the bullet.

I know Hodgon has a range of max loads from 24-27grains with 55 grain bullets. Im fairly new to reloading, but Im surprised you aren't cratering primers with that load.

I much prefer heavier bullets in the 223 with short barrels. Less blast and flash and Varget seems to ring the best velocity out of the heavier pills.
Click to expand...

I packed it in with a punch to get it all under the case mouth then seated the bullet. 27 grs varget and 55gr sgk left primers still will rounded edges. No pressure signs at all
 
Ill play with seating depth so ill run another 25 over the chronograph next time out and check my averages again
This summer im going to rebarrel this rifle to a 20 tac. Thinking i may go with a longer barrel now
 
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