Best Sand for Rifle Rests Bag?
- Thread starter RobertMcC
- Start date
I filled mine with 80 grit sand blast sand, but it will take a while to fill, because it has to settle. My rear bag is filled with the sand too.
Some people use polypropylene beads for weight reduction, but I feel, for shooting off the bench, weight is your friend.
Some people use polypropylene beads for weight reduction, but I feel, for shooting off the bench, weight is your friend.
Any clean, dry sand will work. A funnel the proper size makes filling easier; I added a snout to the funnel made from a cut off .303 case. Trickle the sand in, settling it as you go. You might want to experiment with how firm you want the bags. There is a heavy sand that benchrest shooters use, about twice the mass of common sand.
I use lead shot for my Rabbit ear front bag that is mounted on my Hoppes rest, and also in my rear bag.
I use these strictly for bench use, so weight isn't an issue.
But the added weight really helps hold the rifle when checking for accuracy.....
SKBY.
I found this to be very informative posted by Bryce on Bench rest central.
I am certainly no top gun either but when I have asked similar questions about bags in the past I got next to nothing back so I at least want to pass on my observations to you. They may be of some help but if not I am only out a little typing time !!
I have only used normal sand and heavy Zircon sand. Normal sand wants to be fine but still big enough to be a bit gritty feeling and free of very fine sand and dust. That gritty nature lets the sand lock against itself and that will help a bag hold shape better. I use sieved sand so it is all in a small size range from semi fine to slightly coarse, this seems pretty much perfect to me.
Zircon sand is very fine and flows like water almost. That fine nature doesn't let Zircon hold a shape well in a bag, it tends to just run to the bottom of any shape you make in into leaving air at the top, it isn't gritty enough to lock against itself and hold shape.
Technically speaking the gritty coarser sand has a steeper angle of repose than Zircon. That is if you poured a pile on the ground the gritty sand would form a pile with steeper sides while zircon would run more and form a much flatter sided pile.
If you are a rear bag squeezer the rear bag obviously has to be able to be squeezed and also needs to help hold the new shape that you have just formed it into with your hand !! To that end it seems to be better filled with conventional sand that will interlock on itself. I like the same fine but still a bit gritty sand in a front bag and in the ears of any rear bag so that they hold a shape nicely.
If you are a knob turner or use a co-ax (joystick) front rest the rear bag will need to be firmer so that it doesn't settle and get lower and lower as you shoot. Your hand isn't there to hold the shape so it needs to do it by itself. Of course simply packing the bag tight with gritty sand will work fine and the bag will hold a shape well but it won't be as heavy as some might like.
If the bag is one with a stiff leather body the sand will just fill out the bag to the preformed shape and hold it there. If it is a softer bag intended to be squeezed just packing it tight will just make it rounded and out of shape.
You can add extra wight to the rear bag which helps keep it steady since you are not holding it with your hand. If packed with Zircon to make it heavy it needs to be packed real tight so that the sand doesn't just sink to the bottom like it tends to, this will leave an air gap at the top of the sand and beneath the ears, this makes the ears rock back and forth under recoil. You need to pack the sand in and kind of compact it in there so that the stiff bag is full right to the brim with no room for the sand to move anywhere. You may need to add a bit extra sand to the bag body from time to time. Normal gritty sand in the ears will help them hold shape around the stock better than if they were filled with Zircon and the coarser sand doesn't leak out of the Cordura.
I haven't tried the Sinclair heavy sand and it may hold shape better than Zircon. It would seem if it is coarser and grittier than Zircon but equally heavy it may be the best of both worlds.
I have read that a front bag should not be packed hard. That doesn't make much sense to me. No matter how full the bag is the stock sitting on it and the sides of the rest containing the sand will soon pack any sand into a firm mass contained within the bag, unless there is so little sand that it is just floating around an an area that is to big for it with a layer of bag material over top. Mine is a Cordura Protektor bag and when filled with normal gritty sand I can shape it as needed and a bit of pressure from the side plates of the front rest will lock and hold it into shape. I don't know how you can have a soft or medium firm front bag even if you wanted to ??
Sorry to go on but just wanted to pass on my observations having experimented a bit since I got little in the way of input having asked in the past. It is really just a case of using a bit of common sense and trying different bags and sand combinations for yourself.
Mike Ratigans book has a little information on bag set up and I found an on line comment from Speedy Gonzales somewhere. Might be worth a look.
Bryce
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Last edited by BJS6 : 10-24-2007 at 02:55 PM.
I am certainly no top gun either but when I have asked similar questions about bags in the past I got next to nothing back so I at least want to pass on my observations to you. They may be of some help but if not I am only out a little typing time !!
I have only used normal sand and heavy Zircon sand. Normal sand wants to be fine but still big enough to be a bit gritty feeling and free of very fine sand and dust. That gritty nature lets the sand lock against itself and that will help a bag hold shape better. I use sieved sand so it is all in a small size range from semi fine to slightly coarse, this seems pretty much perfect to me.
Zircon sand is very fine and flows like water almost. That fine nature doesn't let Zircon hold a shape well in a bag, it tends to just run to the bottom of any shape you make in into leaving air at the top, it isn't gritty enough to lock against itself and hold shape.
Technically speaking the gritty coarser sand has a steeper angle of repose than Zircon. That is if you poured a pile on the ground the gritty sand would form a pile with steeper sides while zircon would run more and form a much flatter sided pile.
If you are a rear bag squeezer the rear bag obviously has to be able to be squeezed and also needs to help hold the new shape that you have just formed it into with your hand !! To that end it seems to be better filled with conventional sand that will interlock on itself. I like the same fine but still a bit gritty sand in a front bag and in the ears of any rear bag so that they hold a shape nicely.
If you are a knob turner or use a co-ax (joystick) front rest the rear bag will need to be firmer so that it doesn't settle and get lower and lower as you shoot. Your hand isn't there to hold the shape so it needs to do it by itself. Of course simply packing the bag tight with gritty sand will work fine and the bag will hold a shape well but it won't be as heavy as some might like.
If the bag is one with a stiff leather body the sand will just fill out the bag to the preformed shape and hold it there. If it is a softer bag intended to be squeezed just packing it tight will just make it rounded and out of shape.
You can add extra wight to the rear bag which helps keep it steady since you are not holding it with your hand. If packed with Zircon to make it heavy it needs to be packed real tight so that the sand doesn't just sink to the bottom like it tends to, this will leave an air gap at the top of the sand and beneath the ears, this makes the ears rock back and forth under recoil. You need to pack the sand in and kind of compact it in there so that the stiff bag is full right to the brim with no room for the sand to move anywhere. You may need to add a bit extra sand to the bag body from time to time. Normal gritty sand in the ears will help them hold shape around the stock better than if they were filled with Zircon and the coarser sand doesn't leak out of the Cordura.
I haven't tried the Sinclair heavy sand and it may hold shape better than Zircon. It would seem if it is coarser and grittier than Zircon but equally heavy it may be the best of both worlds.
I have read that a front bag should not be packed hard. That doesn't make much sense to me. No matter how full the bag is the stock sitting on it and the sides of the rest containing the sand will soon pack any sand into a firm mass contained within the bag, unless there is so little sand that it is just floating around an an area that is to big for it with a layer of bag material over top. Mine is a Cordura Protektor bag and when filled with normal gritty sand I can shape it as needed and a bit of pressure from the side plates of the front rest will lock and hold it into shape. I don't know how you can have a soft or medium firm front bag even if you wanted to ??
Sorry to go on but just wanted to pass on my observations having experimented a bit since I got little in the way of input having asked in the past. It is really just a case of using a bit of common sense and trying different bags and sand combinations for yourself.
Mike Ratigans book has a little information on bag set up and I found an on line comment from Speedy Gonzales somewhere. Might be worth a look.
Bryce
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Last edited by BJS6 : 10-24-2007 at 02:55 PM.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Sand blasting grit. The black kind - looks like broken up volcanic glass. Works great. Nice and heavy. Packs well. Doesn't matter if the bag gets wet.
Jerry
Jerry
For a soft front bag, I used some old wool socks, filled and doubled em up then taped em down on the bottom with duct tape. Rifle slides wonderfully, and the rest is very reformable as I used fine soft sand. Got a different forend shape? Squeeze the sock until the sand piles up in the middle then form the shape first with edge of hand then finish with rifle forend for custom fit.
**edit** this is for use with the Caldwell elevating type rest, the front bag holders can be angled down and do a nice job keeping everything in place.
**edit** this is for use with the Caldwell elevating type rest, the front bag holders can be angled down and do a nice job keeping everything in place.
Max Owner
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sand from the beach at Port Dover ON. 
Only thing that I can really add is to make sure you get the bag filled enough. I bought a large longer style bag. Browning makes one, simular.
The "ears" tend to sag because I didn't get enough sand into it.
Only thing that I can really add is to make sure you get the bag filled enough. I bought a large longer style bag. Browning makes one, simular.
The "ears" tend to sag because I didn't get enough sand into it.
Do you recommend putting the sand in a ziplock bag?
Weight isn't much of a issued, I be carrying it in my car..
BTW I bought this rest and bag...Just as a starter...
THE ROCK JR. Front Rest ·
I went with Med ( Varmint )
To save buying bipod for all my guns too..
Weight isn't much of a issued, I be carrying it in my car..
BTW I bought this rest and bag...Just as a starter...
THE ROCK JR. Front Rest ·
I went with Med ( Varmint )
To save buying bipod for all my guns too..
- Location
- land of f-cktards
an ole mentor of mine used to swear by kitty litter........(fresh of course)
I guess what ever is on hand and what ever you prefer
I guess what ever is on hand and what ever you prefer
- Location
- On the edge of an "Inland Sea"
I use the poly beads they put in stuffed animals. You can get it at a craft store. Doesn't matter if it gets wet. Holds it's position great and is light and zero maintenance.
It's the best stuff I've used so far.
I forgot to mention. I use an old sock and stuffed into a mesh bag with a small carabiner to hook onto whatever I'm packing around.
It's the best stuff I've used so far.
I forgot to mention. I use an old sock and stuffed into a mesh bag with a small carabiner to hook onto whatever I'm packing around.
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