Beyond 500 yds. hunting

[Boomer]

Just don't do it. Have some ethics .

At one time I was like minded, but now I disagree. Because its unethical for some people to shoot at large live targets at 50 yards, does that mean no one should shoot beyond 50 yards? There are many riflemen who can statistically achieve 90% hits well beyond 1000 meters in a high confidence environment (clear view of the target, good light conditions, no cross wind). It comes down to having the competence to make the shot, by having made similar shots many, many times in practice. As environmental conditions worsen, the experienced rifleman understands how this will affect his shooting performance, and he will reduce his maximum range accordingly.

Now for the mind bender, which shot is more ethical; a 30 yard snapshot at a white flag that will disappear into heavy cover in the next 2 seconds, or a half mile shot, in a high confidence environment, on an undisturbed animal of similar size, and that for the 4 seconds, from trigger break to bullet impact, is motionless? The answer can be either both or neither. It depends upon the competence of the hunter/rifleman, and upon the appropriateness of his equipment, for the specific conditions he faces.

This comes from someone who enjoys long range shooting, but who chooses not to engage in long range game shooting. Its not my thing, I get far more enjoyment from stalking as close as I can. While there have been notable exceptions, I'm unlikely to take a marginal shot at unwounded game, as it jumps from its bed and disappears into cover. If I don't disturb it, I might come across it again later. Everyone has their own idea concerning ethics, but the best way to be an ethical hunter is not to attempt things that you know are beyond your ability. This is a bit of a problem for the novice hunter, who doesn't yet know what his limitations are, but some range time, shooting from field positions, will give him an idea.

As to the question of which bullet produces the appropriate terminal performance for long range game shooting, Berger appears to provide the answer. Their bullets perform like varmint bullets within a quarter mile, but at extended ranges where transonic impact velocities are the rule, they appear to perform well, and provide the required level of accuracy from a good barrel.

 

[Glock4ever]

I would never tell a hunter how to hunt as long as it is legal. That being said I personally don't consider it sporting to shoot an animal from so far away. I practice quite a bit past 800 yards and I could easily shoot a big game animal at 600 yards - literally this is not a challenge for my .338 LM but I choose not to because getting out of my truck after spotting an animal from a long distance is not in MY definition of hunting. I have yet to see an animal react in alarm when I am at 500 yards+ and as such I don't feel that this is hunting as much as just long range shooting. Maybe I haven't hunted the right animals that are skittish at longer ranges - I heard that antelope run when spotted from so far off but the big game I have hunted to date just stand and either look at me or ignore me at such a distance. My preference is to get in as close as possible to take a shot mainly because it is thrilling to outwit the prey but my opinion may change if there is a big game animal that bolts even at further distances...

 

[emerson]

I would never tell a hunter how to hunt as long as it is legal. That being said I personally don't consider it sporting to shoot an animal from so far away. I practice quite a bit past 800 yards and I could easily shoot a big game animal at 600 yards - literally this is not a challenge for my .338 LM but I choose not to because getting out of my truck after spotting an animal from a long distance is not in MY definition of hunting. I have yet to see an animal react in alarm when I am at 500 yards+ and as such I don't feel that this is hunting as much as just long range shooting. Maybe I haven't hunted the right animals that are skittish at longer ranges - I heard that antelope run when spotted from so far off but the big game I have hunted to date just stand and either look at me or ignore me at such a distance. My preference is to get in as close as possible to take a shot mainly because it is thrilling to outwit the prey but my opinion may change if there is a big game animal that bolts even at further distances...

If hunting was a game to me I would feel the same. Sporting is for those who hunt just for fun. A moose at 100M with a 30-06 isn't sporting either. If I screw around and end up with no meat in the freezer that is irresponsible. At this point I am geared up; hunting costs only time, licenses and fuel. It at least doubles my family meat allowance for the same investment, considering the price of protein now. Many of our peer families live on mostly carbs because of the cost of protein, especially high quality stuff. I believe kids grow best with more protein, so I try to make it available.

 

[Canuck525]

The meat from hunting is the most expensive you will ever eat.

 

[Glock4ever]

Emerson: LOL I guess we factor cost differently because game meat is far more expensive for me than going to Costco. A week away from home, hundreds of dollars in fuel, food and tags... I could have just bought a cow from my friend's ranch for that but it wouldn't be half as fun now would it?

 

[spiffy5813]

Save long distance shooting for paper targets IMO. With very limited circumstances being the exception I have large ethical issues with "long range hunting" passed 300m. Assuming that the shooter understands drop/wind drift, weather effects, etc. nobody can predict how/if the animal moves during flight time of the bullet.

Am I confident I can make 1st round hits at 600m on a chest sizes target? For the most part, yes. Can I be certain that the animal won't take a half step forward and during the flight of the bullet turn my perfect heart shot into a gut shot and wound the animal who is now 600m away from me I can't do anything about? No.

For that reason alone, I don't take shots passed 300m while hunting.

Jack

 

[Otokiak]

If you've done enough long distance shooting & confident in your abilities & gear I say go for it!

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA

 

[Ganderite]

Would it be realistic to say I could kill a coyote at 1000 yards with my .243 win using a 58 grain hornady v-max?

With respect, you shoot a computer more than you shoot a 243.

A good 243 (heavy match barrel) shooting 105 gr match bullets will shoot well at 1000 yards. A 58 gr bullet is for short range only.

I have not shot a 243 at 1000 yrds. But I got my a ss kicked at 1000 yrs by a guy who was shooting one.

 

[RL-300mag]

If you've done enough long distance shooting & confident in your abilities & gear I say go for it!

Otokiak
Rankin Inlet, NU
CANADA

Very well said......

 

[Brian46]

so i am a long range elk hunter and have taken many elk at 400,560,680,350,535,
but i must say its not an easy task i hand load and im hand loading for energy at 1000 yards
i have been to the range 20 times this year already and shoot 1060 yard regulary. and group 3-4 inches at 600 yards
as one person said hunting is a hole lot of unpredictability. but i hunt the same valley with the same winds and the same cuts year after year.
i carry a 1600 yard range finder i have blaze set up for wind in my cuts i carry a weather station .
and practice ,practice ,practice at all my surrounding elevations and have ballistic charts for 3000 ft and 6000 ft .9000 ft
so it can be done buts its years of work

well said and something for everyone to consider.

I have similar places I have hunted for decades and spend years ranging, setting flags and practicing in field every year. Larger caliber rifle like 338 Lapua or bigger will also help you get there as it will take the wind better.

 

[emerson]

Emerson: LOL I guess we factor cost differently because game meat is far more expensive for me than going to Costco. A week away from home, hundreds of dollars in fuel, food and tags... I could have just bought a cow from my friend's ranch for that but it wouldn't be half as fun now would it?

I hunt locally mostly, and don't know anyone that will sell beef to me cheap. No quad or $60k boat, 32yr old 5th wheel. Hunting doesn't have to be expensive as most make. I work rotatioally; time hunting is the same as time pulling my own wrenches. Not always fun times.

 

[burnaby]

Have to agree with hunting for the city folks is a LOT more expensive than buying meat at one of dozens of store in Metrotown 5 mins away. 2 hr drive to get anywhere remote; there is NOTHING local.

Similarly cheaper to buy Salmon than fish for it.

I hunt locally mostly, and don't know anyone that will sell beef to me cheap. No quad or $60k boat, 32yr old 5th wheel. Hunting doesn't have to be expensive as most make. I work rotatioally; time hunting is the same as time pulling my own wrenches. Not always fun times.

 

[Sockeye]

I wish to think that a shot that would have 5000 lb. of energy that makes a small hole in and leaves a small hole going out expended a lot/most of that energy into the ground/tree/air. When a bullet passes completely threw, some of the energy is wasted. I didn't waist my breath on the fellow who told me his 338 LP was very accurate as he had hit a grizzly at just over 1,100 yds. Sadly he said only one drop of blood was found at the spot where the grizz had been when he fired at it. This long range crap(beyond a bullets rated ability to expand) is nothing less then cruelty to animals in my opinion. For 70 years I believe I have known the difference between right and wrong. Big game hunting beyond 600 yds. is wrong in many ways.

 

[OldFrankHog]

Buy 3 watermelons, put them on a table 2 feet apart. Walk away while counting your steps. When you reach 1000 (about 600 yards) stop, get setup, then take out all 3 with 1 shot each first try. Then come back and ask if you can hunt at 600 yards with your rifle.

 

[Aniest]

LR hunting has to have the same level of certainty as a shot at 150yds. If not, pass up on the shot and many days, that is exactly what I did. Winds were wrong or too high. Game presentation in areas not easy to recover, on and on it goes. I certainly saw more game.... just found it very rare when it was "right" to pull the trigger.

Many have offered scenerios that any ethical LR hunter would avoid anyways. And only practise and experience will give the hunter the "gut feeling" to know when engagement is possible with very very high hit probability or if this is just a hail mary.

The thing with modern technology (rangefinders, ect.) and a lot of practice is that a 300WM with Long Range based bullets will indeed give you the ability to safely, humanely and accurately harvest game out to 500 - 800 meters regardless of people's opinions... but... nature does not even give you the opportunity to ethically harvest game at 50 yards even some of the time let alone most of the time (but people adamantly against a perfect 500 meter harvest would try the horrible 50 meter anyways). From the actual people I have met and been told their first hand stories from the most inhumane kills have always been in the 50 - 150 meter range and no one shooting over 300 meters I know personally has had that problem: they practice a lot and know what is ethical and what is not, and they do not assume just because it is 100 meter harvest it should be tried anyways.

To answer the OP's question: different people have threads here about getting the technology with hunting ammo to shoot better than you can. If the technology you choose will shoot tight enough, plus your own fudge factor of flinch/ability/etc., and the bullet can do ethical stopping power at that range it doesn't matter what you shoot. Start with that, as once you have the technology able to do it you can move on to the extensive practice needed. Practice a lot: wind, elevation, angles and a plethera of other factors need to be know and computed by you before the game is gone. But once again, the knowledge is the same at 50 yards as it is 500 yards. Again, ethical shots is not based on distance alone as there are too many so called ethical hunters against 500 meter shots who shouldn't be hunting at all let alone 100 meters.