Big game..big talk

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303carbine

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I have read a lot of posts about guys saying the 12 gauge is better than the 45-70 because of the new fangled bullets for the 12.
Then I see pix of the same guys shooting elk, but they don't use their 12 gauge?
Why not...perhaps because hunting rifles and the bullets they shoot are better?
Or perhaps no confidence in a shotgun round at 500 yards?
 
303carbine said:
I have read a lot of posts about guys saying the 12 gauge is better than the 45-70 because of the new fangled bullets for the 12.
Then I see pix of the same guys shooting elk, but they don't use their 12 gauge?
Why not...perhaps because hunting rifles and the bullets they shoot are better?
Or perhaps no confidence in a shotgun round at 500 yards?
Click to expand...

I think this horse has pretty much expired 303 bit since you continue to beat it, I'll answer you. The three elk in the pics I posted were taken with a .300 Win Mag and a 7MM STW....not a 45/70. I have a 45/70 in the safe but didn't feel it was suited to any of those hunts so I selected a calibre that I felt was. As the .45/70 was not suitable, the 12 gauge likely wasn't either.

Second, and I've stated this countless times already but hopefully you'll listen this time, these 12 gauge rounds are new fangled meaning they weren't around when those hunts took place.


Third, I've also stated this many times and hopefully you'll listen this time, that the 12 gauge is for a niche market and likely only to be used by those forced to do so by regulation. I was not forced to hunt any of those elk by regulation with a shotgun.

Now can we let this poor dead horse lie or are you going to continue to beat it?

Just because the 12 gauge performs the same or better than a variety of cartridges doesn't mean it's the only gun to use and I've certainly never indicated that's it's any more than a niche 200 yard gun.........you get it? Could it kill an elk at under 200 yards...you bet. Will I be taking mine on my next elk hunt.....nope but the 45/70 will be staying home too.

Not sure where you got this misguided impression that I said the 12 gauge would outperform all centrefire but it damn sure won't....but then neither will the 45/70. No interest in being a one gun hunter either....I love the delemma that comes with diciding what gun to use before I go hunting. Some days it's the 7.....some it's the 45/70....some it's the muzzleloader and after all this talk, some will be the 12 gauge........I love having choices and knowing that they'll all do the job within their performance envelope and I love the unique challenges that each offers.

With that said, if I were selecting a rifle on performance alone......the .45/70, 12 gauge or muzzleloader are all in the same range and could all do the same job.
 
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Or perhaps no confidence in a shotgun round at 500 yards?
Click to expand...

No idea what it would do at that rangeand don't care. The shotgun with a regular hunting scope is a 200 yard gun as is the 45/70 with regular sights or a regular hunting scope. The snowball trajectory of both dictates that.........

Save the 19th century stories okay...they really don't apply to an off the shelf shotgun or 45/70. Both are short range guns!
 
sheephunter said:
No idea what it would do at that rangeand don't care. The shotgun with a regular hunting scope is a 200 yard gun as is the 45/70 with regular sights or a regular hunting scope. The snowball trajectory of both dictates that.........

Save the 19th century stories okay...they really don't apply to an off the shelf shotgun or 45/70. Both are short range guns!
Click to expand...

You brag about how good a shotgun is and how lowly and short ranged the 45-70 is, but when it comes down to it you use a 300. Seems to be a little conflicting info coming from your camp.
I wonder how many horse laughs you would inflict on yourself by showing up at a Quigley match with a turkey gun.....:D
 
i have to agree with .303, you should never have bad-mouthed the 45/70 or even mentioned it in the same sentence as the 12 Ga.....I don't believe you will ever be forgiven, the 45/70 is the best cartridge for hunting when using smokeless powder bar none. Just as the 50/90 Sharps is when using BP.
i just talked, on the weekend, to an old hunter in central Sask. who has shot many deer with big racks over the years, he uses a .303 with iron sights, and can't remember shooting any of them over 100 yds.
 
ben hunchak said:
i have to agree with .303, you should never have bad-mouthed the 45/70 or even mentioned it in the same sentence as the 12 Ga.....I don't believe you will ever be forgiven, the 45/70 is the best cartridge for hunting when using smokeless powder bar none. Just as the 50/90 Sharps is when using BP.
i just talked, on the weekend, to an old hunter in central Sask. who has shot many deer with big racks over the years, he uses a .303 with iron sights, and can't remember shooting any of them over 100 yds.
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Hey Ben,even though we have had some differing opinions on paper patching 45-70 bullets,it's nice to see have some agreeing discussions about the 45-70
Let's arrange a Quigley match and everybody bring a shotgun......:slap:
 
The original comparison on the other thread was about the 45-70 and the 12 gauge.I didn't see any claims in that thread that the shotgun could compete with a 300 Win mag at 500 yards.Talk about things getting blown out of proportion.:weird:
 
stubblejumper said:
The original comparison on the other thread was about the 45-70 and the 12 gauge.I didn't see any claims in that thread that the shotgun could compete with a 300 Win mag at 500 yards.Talk about things getting blown out of proportion.:weird:
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+1!

Say what you will about his actual arguements, but I am assuming he was hunting in conditions where the shots might be long.

Can anyone fault a guy for not carrying a 12 Ga OR a 45/70 for shots that could be 300 plus?

I can't.

I am sure that with bullets like the 500 grain Interbonds or heavy hard cast my 45/70 is gonna penetrate deeper than any shotgun slug...But inside 200, I doubt any of the newer sabot slugs are gonna have trouble killing anything in Canada. Same as I wouldn't feel undergunned with a light load like my 350 grain Hornady round noses at almost 2000 fps.

I might not agree with him about everything he says, but this is just breaking his balls for nothing.
 
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True enough,but according to some, we should abandon our centerfires and blast everything with the new 12 gauge super slugs.
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I read the entire 12 gauge vs 45-70 thread and didn't get that impression at all.My interpretation was simply that with some of the new slugs,a shotgun could compete with the 45-70.I saw no claims that the new slugs could compete with all the other cartridges.I don't doubt what was posted about the new slugs,but personally, I wouldn't take either a 12 gauge or a 45-70 on my elk hunts.
 
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