Big Game with 300win mag vs 300 wsm? 338 win mag?

MackForce

MackForce

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Looking into purchasing a rifle for a bison hunt this year.

Looking at ballistics and reviews of these rounds, I am a bit confused.

Does a 180 grain 300wsm at 200yds have the same "knock down power" as a 180 grain 300 win mag at 200 yards?
Would a 338 win mag be worth the extra power?
The 300 wsm wasn't on the radar until I looked at energy stats.. is it not just as good as the 300 win mag?

I would like to use this rifle on other game as well, so no need to go larger.

I picked through the "best hunting round in North America" thread by Ardent... not really finding the answer I am looking for.

I've narrowed to these 2 or 3 rounds (300win mag, 300 wsm, 338 win mag)

What is the word from people with experience hunting these rounds?


Thanks,

Mack
 
Having shot 5 bull moose with my Sako Finnbear .300 Win.Mag. all I can say is that It works very well on big game.First bull took at 245 yards (range finder used) and 180 gr. Nosler blew a hole the size of a tea cup (lung was hanging out) the opposite side of impact.It made 5 steps and fell over.Two other bulls were between 50-70 yards away when shot and when field dressed the lung/heart area was one big blood clot on both.Could not tell which vital organ was what.Two other bulls were hit facing me,in the chest, and started to run parallel to me when I shot again.It was quite impressive to see a big animal like a bull moose literally jump in the air and stop,as if hitting a brick wall,then fall to the ground kicking a death throw.The .300 Win.Mags were all my handloads which made the kills even better.My son has a Ruger 77 in the same caliber and the last year I gave him my watch in which he took the biggest bull our group has ever bagged.So I can't give any advice on the other calibers but the .300 WM has my vote.Also look into the .300 Remington Ultra Mag.,.300 Weatherby.Very pricey to practice with unless you load but both have alot of potential for longer range knock-down power.Also if you don't load your own the .300 Win.Mag. will be the most prolific and cost effective over the counter round to purchase and we all know practice makes perfect!
 
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Thanks for that Lou. That is what I want to hear from you guys.

Most of my hunting parties and friends/family are in the 30-06 / 308 club mostly. Not too many going larger.

So excuse my ignorance with this one. You were using 180gr 300 wm. What would be the biggest difference than a 180gr 308? 180gr 338 wm? Aside from the numbers, the actual real world difference?

I do not load my own yet, so ammo price is very much a factor. (kids are too young to have an actual hobby or free time)

Thanks
 
Lets open a big can of mashed arseholes here.The 30-06 and .308 and the .303 were all designed to do what?Kill people in war right?That's what they do BEST kill deer sized animals.Will they kill bigger game of course but how effectively?If you were going to be shot at by a firing squad type execution and could pick the caliber of your demise what would you pick?Of course what the guys could shoot best, but it wouldn't be a .22 unless you like pain.Most people don't shoot much..period..and so like milder calibers due to recoil.Some people have physical problems so big boomers aren't for them.But if you are a SERIOUS shooter with ETHICS then all of these can be addressed.Big game animals should only be taken with big calibers and competent hunters.How would we do this.In Sweden, in order to get a moose tag, the hunter must place 3 out of 5 shoots,in the kill zone, at a MOVING moose target EVERY season to qualify.If we did that here 90% of hunters would either fail or start practicing.I've had this conversation for many years at moose/deer camps and quite often people got pissed because I know I'm right and they can't hit the broad side of a barn or their cartridges are so old they turn green in the box.Real world,from what I've witnessed...any military cartridge at 100 yds. will be multiple hits to bring down large game..unless you are lucky.Larger calibers aren't any good unless the guy can shoot with them.Using muzzle brakes to lessen recoil DOES work well and the extra cost is a no brainer.For cost the .300 Win.Mag is your best bet for over the counter prices and availability.What make of rifle/scope are you aiming at if you don't mind me asking.Also I have and use, to great effect ,30-06 and .303 also .30-30 to take deer and bear.. but for moose... not unless it's standing right in front of me (which has been the case while deer hunting) but that's another story!
 
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Jesus Christ moose aren't that tough and don't require a 300win mag nor a 300 weatherby nor a 300 ultra. 308 & 3006 more than suffice for anything on this continent short of polar bears, grizzly bears and bison.

OP- for a bison specific rifle I would get the 338 win mag. Feed big, heavy & tough animals big, heavy & tough bullets.

And for your post about Sweden, you're right they do have to qualify yearly on a moving target. It's pretty cool and fun. A lot of them also use a caliber that was designed for war, the lowly 6.5x55.
 
thanks again Lou.

I have been ready to pull the trigger on a 300 win mag (Browning A bolt, Tikka T3, Savage 114). Was looking for a deal until I see a great price on a 116 Alaskan bush hunter in 338 win mag. I am pretty set on it now and going to buy that. I shoot often, use several calibers but I need a closer range (100-200 I would say) big game round. I find this fits the bill, although ammo is VERY pricey, it wont be out all that much.

I know these talks are non stop here. I guess I am looking for someone to say "you don't need the 338! a 300 win mag would do the same thing!"

Im a young man, I don't mind recoil. Just don't want to blow a quarter off a deer (should that become a reality while I have the 338 out) and look like an @$$hle
 
I shot a lot of Moose with a 300 WM. My old Ruger has the scratches and little marks to prove it.

I my opinion its one of my favourite cartridges to shoot and reload. You will not have any problem shooting a Bison with any of the calibers that you are looking to buy.

The thing that concerns me when people ask for advice is how well do they handle recoil. The 300WM, 300WSM and 338 Win all have a stout recoil and if you can't handle the recoil then your not going to shoot it accurately. But if the recoil isn't a problem I would pick the 300 WM. Almost every hunting and shooting store will have ammo for it.
 
I use an older model at the range for extended sessions.It works very well and mimic's the amount of clothing worn while hunting to some degree.We call it the "sissy" bag but it get's used..believe me!
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Jesus Christ moose aren't that tough and don't require a 300win mag nor a 300 weatherby nor a 300 ultra. 308 & 3006 more than suffice for anything on this continent short of polar bears, grizzly bears and bison.

OP- for a bison specific rifle I would get the 338 win mag. Feed big, heavy & tough animals big, heavy & tough bullets.

And for your post about Sweden, you're right they do have to qualify yearly on a moving target. It's pretty cool and fun. A lot of them also use a caliber that was designed for war, the lowly 6.5x55.
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This!
 
To avoid the rhetoric... (or rather, any more rhetoric)... you are asking specifically about a bison gun... go big. I would go with the .338 from your list... with heavy bullets and a stout charge. Personally, would use this as an excuse for a nice .375 H&H... there have been two nice bolt action H&H's in the EE over the past couple days... scroll back and take a look.
 
MackForce said:
Thanks for that Lou. That is what I want to hear from you guys.

Most of my hunting parties and friends/family are in the 30-06 / 308 club mostly. Not too many going larger.

So excuse my ignorance with this one. You were using 180gr 300 wm. What would be the biggest difference than a 180gr 308? 180gr 338 wm? Aside from the numbers, the actual real world difference?

I do not load my own yet, so ammo price is very much a factor. (kids are too young to have an actual hobby or free time)

Thanks
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This post raised a red flag for me. If ammo cost is a serious concern, and you don't handload, the .300 and .338 magnums might not be for you. Do you have any experience shooting rifles chambered for this class of cartridge, and if so what kind of rifle was it? Lots of guys purchase these rifles only to find out they can't hit with them, and then find out they can no longer hit with the rifles they used to shoot either. Your subconscious will always remind you that certain activities hurt.

IMHO you are better served with a .30/06 that's loaded with the appropriate bullet for whatever game you are pursuing, than you are a .300 that you are unable to shoot well. A fellow who is in tight financial circumstances might be tempted to purchase a low cost rifle in .300 or .338 magnum, only to find out that the reality of shooting one of these things with their light plastic stocks is beyond unpleasant, and in some cases completely unmanageable. The purpose of shooting is hitting the target, but if you intend on purchasing a low cost rifle, hitting will be much easier with a less energetic cartridge.

Don't be beguiled by the figures from a ballistics table. Shooting big case .30 and .338 caliber rifles competently takes some experience, and if you don't handload, you can't very well dial down the power until such time as you've become accustomed to the rifle. The only ammo that will be available to you is full powered stuff. If you already own a .30/06, use the $500 or $600 earmarked for the .300 to buy ammo, then get out and do some realistic field shooting, to hone your skills. A competent marksman, who can shoot well from any position, armed with a .30/06, is far more capable than the marksman armed with a .338 whose recoil and blast are outside his comfort zone, and whose performance is less than competent. Once you begin handloading, you can then reconsider the purchase of a .300 or a .338, if you still feel the need.

If none of this dissuades you, and you're set on one of these rifles, I would suggest a wood stocked M-70 in .300 Winchester. This rifle will cycle reliably, has a good trigger, and should be heavy enough to dampen the effects of the felt recoil. The .300 Winchester is an exceptionally capable cartridge, and of the 3 cartridges mentioned is the best choice. My preference when choosing a medium bore cartridges is to skip past the .338s and .35s and choose a 9.3 or a .375. Be sure that when you mount the scope, that you have at least 4" of eye relief. Be sure that the rifle's LOP is cut to fit you.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Jesus Christ moose aren't that tough and don't require a 300win mag nor a 300 weatherby nor a 300 ultra. 308 & 3006 more than suffice for anything on this continent short of polar bears, grizzly bears and bison.

OP- for a bison specific rifle I would get the 338 win mag. Feed big, heavy & tough animals big, heavy & tough bullets.

And for your post about Sweden, you're right they do have to qualify yearly on a moving target. It's pretty cool and fun. A lot of them also use a caliber that was designed for war, the lowly 6.5x55.
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Would you think that caliber would be a humane/ethical shot at..let's say..300 yards?Think about downrange ballistics now..I've witnessed knuckleheads trying that range with a .303,hitting the moose and watching it walk away,never to be seen again.I've stood next to a hunter when he shot a bull 6 times with his 30-06,every shot raising clouds of mist off the moose's morning hide,and it slowly turned and walked into the bush.Luckily we went after it and it was still walking we he shot it once more...should I go on?These are MY experiences and I know people will take lousy shots because they feel that they have it coming to them.Never mind about being a good hunter and calling a bad shot, that will make you feel better about yourself that night or beyond,and getting off a lousy shot and creating bad karma.From MY experience it's the hydrostatic shock,bullet speed,as well as energy at DISTANCE that's brings em' down.Roy Weatherby knew this way back when and it still works the law of physics to-day.
 
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We all have our anecdotes. I personally witnessed a hunter nail a bull at 30 yards in the shoulder with a 300 RUM with a 180 grain TTSx and the thing promptly ran away, jumped into the lake and drown 50 yards from shore. That was fun getting him out. Years ago I had a Norwegian hunter put 5 rounds from a 338 win mag into a young bull and he walked around for a bit and needed an anchor shot.

Moral of the story is shot placement. A well placed shot with a lesser cartridge beats a poorly placed shot with an ultra mag.
 
Thanks for that Boomer.

The forum posts with nick names makes these discussions go off the rails sometimes. You raised some good points, and taken. For what its worth, I've been shooting for 20 years consistently. Had my safety card since I was 12. Ive shot most calibers and have never been subconsciously shook.
Money isn't an issue, but its always a concern/factor.

I am getting some of the info I was looking for.

I just don't think I will need to go larger than the 338 but may get away with the 300wsm. If that makes any sense?

I appreciate all the responses.
 
I chose a .300 WM after I had a hard time estimating range with a .30-06. Shooting a Remington gas auto that had vertical strings didn't help. With the .300WM my zero is at 200, so the only calculation I need to do is where in the trajectory is the vital area. If it too far away, I probably shouldn't take the shot. I practice from the bench for zero and for confidence, and double check for scope bite with my normal hunting clothes.

I have concentrated on 30 calibre rifles for another reason. There is a wide variety of cheap bullets, that I can load across several cartridges. This is one reason to go for the .300s. Bullets for .338 are into another category and retail price point. Yes, there are light .338 bullets and heavy .300 bullets.
 
LouF said:
Lets open a big can of mashed arseholes here.The 30-06 and .308 and the .303 were all designed to do what?Kill people in war right?That's what they do BEST kill deer sized animals.Will they kill bigger game of course but how effectively?If you were going to be shot at by a firing squad type execution and could pick the caliber of your demise what would you pick?Of course what the guys could shoot best, but it wouldn't be a .22 unless you like pain.Most people don't shoot much..period..and so like milder calibers due to recoil.Some people have physical problems so big boomers aren't for them.But if you are a SERIOUS shooter with ETHICS then all of these can be addressed.Big game animals should only be taken with big calibers and competent hunters.How would we do this.In Sweden, in order to get a moose tag, the hunter must place 3 out of 5 shoots,in the kill zone, at a MOVING moose target EVERY season to qualify.If we did that here 90% of hunters would either fail or start practicing.I've had this conversation for many years at moose/deer camps and quite often people got pissed because I know I'm right and they can't hit the broad side of a barn or their cartridges are so old they turn green in the box.Real world,from what I've witnessed...any military cartridge at 100 yds. will be multiple hits to bring down large game..unless you are lucky.Larger calibers aren't any good unless the guy can shoot with them.Using muzzle brakes to lessen recoil DOES work well and the extra cost is a no brainer.For cost the .300 Win.Mag is your best bet for over the counter prices and availability.What make of rifle/scope are you aiming at if you don't mind me asking.Also I have and use, to great effect ,30-06 and .303 also .30-30 to take deer and bear.. but for moose... not unless it's standing right in front of me (which has been the case while deer hunting) but that's another story!
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Its not 1915 it is 2015 ! The 30-06 with modern powder and bullets eg: 200gr AccuBonds @2700 mv will surely take a moose sized animal with one shot on a consistently boring basis, It is a much more controllable round than the 300 WM, therefore good shot placement is easier. So, given the choice of a 1968 300WM or a 2015 30-06 , the 30-06 will be the pick.
To the OP, 338wm is a good all round choice for big game , think of it as 25% more than a 30-06, similar trajectory. Bison, here in BC, has a minimum power requirement, I think its a 7Mag with 175gr bullets, but check it out. Its difficult to have a reasonable deer cartridge and bison cartridge in one round, that's why I have a 30-06 and a 9.3 for big animals.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
We all have our anecdotes. I personally witnessed a hunter nail a bull at 30 yards in the shoulder with a 300 RUM with a 180 grain TTSx and the thing promptly ran away, jumped into the lake and drown 50 yards from shore. That was fun getting him out. Years ago I had a Norwegian hunter put 5 rounds from a 338 win mag into a young bull and he walked around for a bit and needed an anchor shot.

Moral of the story is shot placement. A well placed shot with a lesser cartridge beats a poorly placed shot with an ultra mag.
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What caliber is minimum for dangerous game?I've had a moose come after me once so I guess that's considered dangerous.By the way, when that happens, I don't care what you're using it feels like you have a chop-stick in your hands!:ninja:
 
f:P:
BCBRAD said:
Its not 1915 it is 2015 ! The 30-06 with modern powder and bullets eg: 200gr AccuBonds @2700 mv will surely take a moose sized animal with one shot on a consistently boring basis, It is a much more controllable round than the 300 WM, therefore good shot placement is easier. So, given the choice of a 1968 300WM or a 2015 30-06 , the 30-06 will be the pick.
To the OP, 338wm is a good all round choice for big game , think of it as 25% more than a 30-06, similar trajectory. Bison, here in BC, has a minimum power requirement, I think its a 7Mag with 175gr bullets, but check it out. Its difficult to have a reasonable deer cartridge and bison cartridge in one round, that's why I have a 30-06 and a 9.3 for big animals.
Click to expand...

Don't get emotional .I love the 30-06 .It's about big game at long distance.f:P:
 
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