Bimetal Ammo in Norinco M305 chrome lined barrel?

Nyksta

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Hi guys. I have a question on Full metal Jacket Bimetal bullets. Specifically Federal Lake City 7.62x51 XM80.

I have a brand new Norinco M305 18.6 inch chrome lined barrel installed into USGI fiberglass stock and m14.ca long sight plane. I did barrel break-in using self loaded brass and 165 gr accubonds. Im getting consistent 1 inch groups. But the brass is getting beat to heck. Now that Im done my barrel break-in i was planning on switching to the full metal jacket ammo and keeping my reload brass for my bolt actions.

Is shooting bimetal coated fmj bullets going to ruin my barrels accuracy? I know 1 inch groups in an M1A platform is a bit rare and I dont want to ruin it.
 
Shoot it, the chrome lined barrel will take anything you can throw at it. I have shot a ton of Lake city FmJ in my Springfield National Match and in my heavy barrel USGI LRB, it didn't hurt those rifles and they are a heck of a lot more expensive than the Norc's.

I would love to see the targets holding MOA with a M14 platform, I have done it but it's rare to do it regularly. What's your recipe, what other mods have you done to the rifle, have you reinforces the forestock on that USGI stock. Personally, you can reload ammo as cheap as your Lake city Fedral using good quality components and getting good accuracy. Lake city Fedral is most likely not going to give you MOA performance and you may be disappointed. Special note, if you decide to reload the Lake city brass back your load recipes off a grain or so from starting loads and all the way through, the cases have slightly lower case capacity but will take the semi auto action abuse better.
 
Some reality checking for the Norinco shooters out there may be important.

1) Typically chinese chrome lined barrel don't break in like a target barrel. Chrome lined barrels are made to be wear resistant, not to be hyper accurate. Breaking a barrel in basically wears minor imperfections into a uniform state over the first few hundred rounds, on a chrome lined barrel, the hard chrome is FAR harder than any bullets you will ever use and it effectively won't break in like a target barrel.

2) Have you checked your headspace? In all liklihood it's on the long side and is a 7.62 NATO chamber, not a .308 Winhester chamber. You gun will likely close on a SAMMI NoGo, but not a field gauge. For this reason, if you full length size, you will wear out your brass pretty fast. If you are lucky and your chamber is within the SAAMI range (doubtful on a factory Norinco), then what do you mean by beating up your brass? The M14 of not particularly hard on brass compared to other semi automoatics. Typically you get a small nick on the side of the case and a small flat on the cartridge mouth. Neither will affect reloading longevity.

3) Your rifle was designed to shoot 7.62mm Full Metal Jacket rounds. XM80 is designed for M240 and M60 machine guns, so you will be lucky to get 2MOA with it, but your rifle was designed to shoot ammo like this. It will be fine. Most US issue M14's are using M80 service ammunition around the world today.

4) Virtually all M80 ammo has a projectile that has a gilding metal (approx. 90% Cu & 10% Zn) overplated steel jacket with a lead core. M118 (match and special ball), M118LR and M852 ammo have a solid guilding metal jacket with a lead core. M80 = spray and pray fodder, M118 = sniper ammo, more or less. XM80 ammo is actually just Lace City M80 overrun ammo packaged and sold commercially.
 
Shimmed Gas port, shimmed stock, m14.ca recoil spring guide. M14.ca Long Sight Plane is grabbing the barrel at multiple locations. Certainly not freefloated but very much added rigidity. The indexing is near perfect on this rifle. The throat is at 2.910" and my 165 gr accubonds are loaded to 2.845" to fit the magazine. Cci BR2 primers and remington brass. Worked up to 46.0 grains Varget and it is shooting happy.
 
Just thinking out loud....Claven2, what effect would XM80 have on a non-chrome lined barrel? Lets say you fired this ammo for plinking purposes out of a bolt action 308 hunting rifle.
Internet search gives mixes opinions. Most say reduced barrel life may occur but no one seems to know.
 
Lol. Imho, stop worrying and go shoot.

Fact: SAK m14 barrels are not chrome lined.

Neither is the M24.

Just shoot your rifle. Do you care if life is 15,000 rounds or 14,000 rounds?

Do you shoot that much? Will it matter in the long run?
 
The absolute best work I have seen on this topic is found here:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

In short, a well funded experimenter bought four brand new AR-15 carbines with chrome lined barrels. They also bought 10,000 rounds of ammunition for each rifle. Each rifle was assigned to use a specific brand and type of ammunition exclusively.

The rifle that was fired with brass-cased, lead-cored, gilding-metal-jacketed ammunition did not suffer a single malfunction in 10,000 rounds, and still exhibited very serviceable accuracy at the end of the test.

Rifles that were fired with bimetal (plated steel) jacketed bullets were keyholing targets by the 6,000 round mark.

Shooting any kind of ammunition is going to ruin your barrel eventually. Using bimetal jacketed bullets will likely result in shortened barrel life, figure by about half.
 
The absolute best work I have seen on this topic is found here:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

In short, a well funded experimenter bought four brand new AR-15 carbines with chrome lined barrels. They also bought 10,000 rounds of ammunition for each rifle. Each rifle was assigned to use a specific brand and type of ammunition exclusively.

The rifle that was fired with brass-cased, lead-cored, gilding-metal-jacketed ammunition did not suffer a single malfunction in 10,000 rounds, and still exhibited very serviceable accuracy at the end of the test.

Rifles that were fired with bimetal (plated steel) jacketed bullets were keyholing targets by the 6,000 round mark.

Shooting any kind of ammunition is going to ruin your barrel eventually. Using bimetal jacketed bullets will likely result in shortened barrel life, figure by about half.

but keep in mind that in that study the authors concluded that with the money they saved shooting the cheaper bimetal ammo, they could afford to buy a new barrel and break about even had they exclusively shot the more expensive non-bimetal ammo
 
While that is likely true of the Bushmaster AR's tested with 5.56 in that article, the M14 platform is a different matter.

Bushmaster uses commercial barrels with arguably less robust chrome lining than milspec barrels. Also, they used Brown Bear, Wolf and Tula ammo as their examples of bimetal ammo, and used top quality Lake City/Federal ammo as the basis for comparison. All these cheaper brands are made in Russia at state-run arms factories that usually make 5.45mm and 7.62mm AK ammo for Russia's limitless supply of cheap AKM series rifles.

I would submit that milspec M80 ball with thick guilding in a boxer primed brass case with IMR4895 powder is not really comparable steel cased Russian ammo with a copper washed steel jacket.

5.56 is also significantly hotter/faster than 7.62x51 with a much smaller bore diameter - factors known to accelerate barrel wear.

You also have to look at the relative cost of ammo compared to the cost of a new barrel. An M14 barrel, even a krieger, is around $600 installed. If the bimetal ammo is cheaper by more than $600 over the life of the barrel, you likely still come out ahead.

It's also important to note they ran those guns hard, fast and hot. "Excessive upper receiver heat did cause thermal discoloration of and cosmetic damage to the EOTech sights.". think about that, they burned those barrels out with so much rapid fire that they heat affected the eotech sights on the uppers. they say the guns stayed under 750F. I'm skeptical - that would not change the anodizing colour on an eotech housing. And 750F is still 400C - think about that. Your kitchen oven can't get that hot, and they maintained those temps long enough to fire 10,000 rounds (!).

Bimetal rounds have increased barrel friction and WILL heat up a barrel faster on full auto. On high volume machineguns, that is why stellite liners were developed - for bimetal rounds with very high rates of fire. It's unlikely you will have this kind of issue in canada with semi-auto rifles and 5 round mag limits (!).

From the article:

Why Did The Barrels Wear The Way They Did? “Because we shot them until they got hot, and then we kept shooting them.”

When they dissected the barrels, the throats were evenly worn in all 4 barrels, and all 4 had gas ports worn to the point of not being in spec. The federal ammo had the worst gas port.

So all that to say, for the average shooter not running full auto or very fast semi-auto until you get he barrel over 400C, you'll never see the return on investment for the difference in ammo price. If you actually shoot 6000+ rounds of bimetal M80, to be frank, you'd likely want to change you barrel anyhow as even the best ammo will see a barrel's optimal accuracy decrease by that point.
 
but keep in mind that in that study the authors concluded that with the money they saved shooting the cheaper bimetal ammo, they could afford to buy a new barrel and break about even had they exclusively shot the more expensive non-bimetal ammo

What you say is true, but not as relevant as it might be, given the context of the original question:

Is shooting bimetal coated fmj bullets going to ruin my barrels accuracy? I know 1 inch groups in an M1A platform is a bit rare and I dont want to ruin it.

In other words, Nyksta's motivation is preserving the barrel he has now, rather than the economics of total operating cost over the receiver's lifespan.
 
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