Blades from spikes?

collector67

collector67

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
53   0   0
Location
Wet Coast
Hi all
I just wonder if anyone has any idea why the Russians switched from the relatively simple, easier to manufacture cruciform spike bayonet (of which they had millions of similar types for the M44 carbine) on the 1949 SKS to the more complex (to my eyes anyways) blade style on later models? Bear in mind that the PRC switched back to the spike bayo when they started producing their version of the SKS for ease of manufacture. Was it purely asthetical ("oooooohhhhhh look Sergy...shiny"!), or was there another reason behind the adopting of the blade bayo for the Russian SKS?
Many thanks!
 
Soviet union was peace minded country. Red army was only there for defence of communism, therefore since crusifix bayonets cause triangular woonds in the battle, thus causing more suffering to the ennemies who ever they may be. Soviet government decided that after blody war 1941-1945 it will be more humain thing to switch to blade type bayonet so people in the west have more chances to survive the battle after being stabbed during bayonet charge of mighty Soviet counteratack, if not being shot before hand.
 
gewehr76 said:
Soviet union was peace minded country. Red army was only there for defence of communism, therefore since crusifix bayonets cause triangular woonds in the battle, thus causing more suffering to the ennemies who ever they may be. Soviet government decided that after blody war 1941-1945 it will be more humain thing to switch to blade type bayonet so people in the west have more chances to survive the battle after being stabbed during bayonet charge of mighty Soviet counteratack, if not being shot before hand.
Click to expand...

Written like a true party member :p

BTW, try spell check next time ;)
 
gewehr76 said:
Soviet union was peace minded country. Red army was only there for defence of communism, therefore since crusifix bayonets cause triangular woonds in the battle, thus causing more suffering to the ennemies who ever they may be. Soviet government decided that after blody war 1941-1945 it will be more humain thing to switch to blade type bayonet so people in the west have more chances to survive the battle after being stabbed during bayonet charge of mighty Soviet counteratack, if not being shot before hand.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I have heard that the SKS rifle was designed with only marginal accuracy so that the enemy would be hit in his extremities (not in his center-of-mass where instant incapacitation and death usually occur) so that it is easier to patch him together to fight again. Or so that the wounded can recover quicker so they can rejoin their family sooner and continue with their civilian lives.
 
gewehr76 said:
Soviet union was peace minded country. Red army was only there for defence of communism, therefore since crusifix bayonets cause triangular woonds in the battle, thus causing more suffering to the ennemies who ever they may be. Soviet government decided that after blody war 1941-1945 it will be more humain thing to switch to blade type bayonet so people in the west have more chances to survive the battle after being stabbed during bayonet charge of mighty Soviet counteratack, if not being shot before hand.
Click to expand...


easyrider604 said:
I totally agree. I have heard that the SKS rifle was designed with only marginal accuracy so that the enemy would be hit in his extremities (not in his center-of-mass where instant incapacitation and death usually occur) so that it is easier to patch him together to fight again. Or so that the wounded can recover quicker so they can rejoin their family sooner and continue with their civilian lives.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry but what a load of hogwash, where are you guys hearing this nonsense?
It's like gunshop historian coffee time talk. :rolleyes: :D


Also...
Stevo said:
It can't be easier to manufacture a cruciform bayonet than it is to simply stamp out a blade shape.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, and most of the spike bayonets I have seen have slight milling marks...in my experience milling takes more work then stamping.

Being production conscience I'm sure the Soviets, and later the Chinese had machines that could crank the bayonets out and I'd love to see an example of one of these machines in action. Keeping in mind they would have had a lot of production practice with the Mosin bayonets which are of a similar shape.
 
Could have been done simply for 'flash value'. A knife is a much more aggressive symbol than a spike, even though both are quite good at sticking people. The spike even has a few advantages in the fight department, but it doesn't really look 'good' in a parade, and after practically stomping the fascists into red jelly on their own for most of the war, the Soviets held a lot of parades. A black spike would have been traditional, but it wouldn't have much visual 'pop'.

A flashy metal knife on the other hand; that looks like something you jam into people on a charge. When marching in formation, it shows a sea of mounted bayonets; a warning to enemies. The Chinese put the spike back on their SKS, but they didn't black out the spike, leaving the metal as bright white on the black-and-brown rifle.

Flash value, I'm sure of it.
 
"...what a load of hogwash..." Yep. Had no more to do with hitting extremities than the fairy tale about the 5.56 being designed to tumble.
The SKS was designed as a stop gap semi-auto rifle that could be made as fast as possible, then be issued to illiterate conscripts who could be taught to use it with minimal training. So was the AK47. Long range accuracy wasn't required.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gewehr76
Soviet union was peace minded country. Red army was only there for defence of communism, therefore since crusifix bayonets cause triangular woonds in the battle, thus causing more suffering to the ennemies who ever they may be. Soviet government decided that after blody war 1941-1945 it will be more humain thing to switch to blade type bayonet so people in the west have more chances to survive the battle after being stabbed during bayonet charge of mighty Soviet counteratack, if not being shot before hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by easyrider604
I totally agree. I have heard that the SKS rifle was designed with only marginal accuracy so that the enemy would be hit in his extremities (not in his center-of-mass where instant incapacitation and death usually occur) so that it is easier to patch him together to fight again. Or so that the wounded can recover quicker so they can rejoin their family sooner and continue with their civilian lives.


I'm sorry but what a load of hogwash, where are you guys hearing this nonsense?
It's like gunshop historian coffee time talk.
Click to expand...

Gotcha!!!
 
Just got this off wiki, sounds like legitimate reasons:

The triangular bayonet, unlike an old urban legend, was not designed to create stab wounds "that were difficult to stitch when attended to by a medic, as it is more difficult to stitch a three-sided wound than a two-sided one, thus making the wound more likely to become infected"......"Instead, three sided bayonets were designed to be an economical compromise between flexing strength and the amount of wrought iron needed to make the bayonet (compare to a structural steel Tee-beam)."

--

It seems it comes down to flexing strength. Two designs, using the same amount of steel, makes sense to go with whichever design is the least likely to break.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom