Bluing AND browning on the same gun?

Bksrt8

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Hello all, I've taken on a wall hanger project to learn with and mainly just kill time. If it turns out good I may or may not start a new thread to post some pictures/video I've taken.

Anywhoo, my question is if anyone is aware of any guns, that have perhaps a browned barrel and blued receiver? Or some other configuration of the 2 finishes?
Thanks for your help!
 
Just off the top of my head, Pedersoli has some firearms with browned barrels, but I think most with browned barrels have case hardened receivers. Might be worth checking the website, they may have examples with browning and bluing as well.
 
Sorry I'm in the middle of getting a truck ready to go back on the highway and haven't had a spare second to check this post.

Yes, it's an old JS Harrison 12g sxs side hammer that I purchased from another member.....its in pretty rough shape, Damascus barrels are rusty on the surface although the bores don't look bad. The stock is pretty bad, it's cracked and a couple large pieces actually fell out when I separated the stock from the receiver but I'm going to glue and clamp it as best I can and I'm sure it'll be fine.

I have the locks apart to clean them. I suspect it would still fire, the locks work the way they should so aside from cleaning I'll leave them alone.
I'm at peace with the fact that it will likely not be safe to fire again but if it's going on the wall it has to look great. I know it's 100+ years old but it's in a sad state and even though it's not worth anything it would be a nice show of respect to the original maker to have it look good again.

So all that said, I LOVE the look of browned Damascus barrels but I've never seen browned barrels with a blued receiver. There are a few Pedersoli models with browned barrels and case hardened receivers that are similar to the look I'm after. I'm thinking of throwing caution to the wind and going through with it. I've also considered just polishing out the receiver, hammers and trigger guard as best I can without damaging the engravings and coat it in Renaissance wax with browned barrels. My only concern with polishing is there's some tarnishing that i don't think would come off without some heavy grit sanding so perhaps the bluing might hide better than polishing.

I have ALOT of pictures and even some video but I'll have to read up on how to post those.
 
The vintage English side by side guns ( mainly prior to WW1) with ‘damascus’ barrels had browned barrels, some American guns had a black or dark blue finish which can also show the pattern well but fades quicker. Actions, lockplates, butt plates, hammers and triggers were invariably case hardened, not primarily for colour or for show, but to harden the surface to protect the engraving and prevent wear. The trigger guard and top lever were usually the only blued parts although European guns often had that case hardened as well. An authentic restoration will duplicate the original finishes. Amateur or budget restorations frequently damage the engraving with over enthusiastic buffing and usually either leave the formerly case coloured parts in the white with either bright or satin finish or blue some or all of them. Case hardening is a specialized skill requiring specialized equipment and considerable knowledge and experience to avoid disaster, it’s a specialized sub trade in Britain.
I really hate to see formerly beautiful guns that have been tarted up to look pretty but stripped of the features that made them beautiful in the first place, they might be shiny but they’re ugly! In your case, trying to salvage enough of a formerly beautiful but now unusable and ugly wreck to become an inert wall decoration is a worthy goal in my opinion. You can never bring it back to it’s former glory and even if it were possible the expense would vastly outweigh the value of the finished product. By all means brown your barrels. It’s a slow, messy, repetitive job but the results, even by a dedicated amateur, can be very pleasing. And it can be stripped and redone until you are satisfied with the result. Getting brown is easy, getting it even over all is difficult, getting strong pattern is nearly an art. For your case hardened parts you will need to polish to remove pitting and scattered traces of case colours anyway, you can leave them white with whatever degree of finish you like or blue them, your choice. Be very careful to faithfully follow contours and keep flat surfaces true when polishing. You WILL damage engraving by polishing, try to minimize damage. An attractive combination is browned barrels, white action and lockplates with hammers, top lever, trigger guard, etc blued, but the choice is yours. Good luck and keep us updated as progress continues.
 
Make no mistake, I am an amateur at this but I've got 20+ years in steel/metal work which at least in my oppinion may give me an advantage over others that have attempted a similar project. The draw to this project for me was in the history and learning more about those old practices that have largely disappeared aside from the much higher end and higher priced guns that for many people are unobtainable. The grinding, sanding, polishing used to be all in a days work for me. I've got a bit of knowledge in metallurgy as well as a knack for tinkering but above all else i have a real respect for the makers and thier trade beit gun makers or watch makers ect so for me it's of utmost importance to preserve the hand engravings and as much of the checkering as i can while still having something that looks like a finely finished firearm that i can proudly hang on the wall. Anything done by hand is important to save imo and back in those days there wasnt alot that WASNT done by hand.
To me the finish isnt as important as saving the original peices but im fairly confident that i can save 99% of the original parts. I also want as nice a finish as one could expect from a diy job.....I dont want a Bubba gun, there's enough hacks out there that would gladly take a sawzall to the barrels and paint it od green and think they can go work for H&H, I am not one of those people. My goal with this one is of course learning but also to restore to a look that honors the time period and that the maker would approve of.
I may go with a polished/blued/brown combo as mentioned. When I purchased the gun it was white/bare already, no bluing to speak of and the barrels didn't seem to have any finish aside from some brown stuff running out from the top and bottom rib which I suspect is whatever epoxy/glue used to adhere the ribs to the barrels. But that run of epoxy made a brown streak on the barrels so my first thought was that it had previously been browned which is why I figured I'd restore it that way.
I did look up JS Harrison to see if I could find SOME kind of direction to go with this project to no avail. Theres simply so little information on the maker that I decided to go looking at other side hammer shotguns to see what other makers were doing at the time. Again, I didn't see the finish combination I was looking for (blue/brown) and was curious if there was a reason why makers weren't using this combination. I mean aside from convenience I can't imagine why you WOULDNT use a brown/blue combination as I find it quite appealing.
 
As mentioned, aside from the barrels most of the metal parts were case hardened to impart surface hardening, the colours were a coincidental product of that process and were probably visual confirmation of this important step, this wasn’t conceived as decoration. The barrels and ribs were originally fastened together along with some unseen spacers with conventional soft solder. Done properly it doesn’t show, a sloppy job can leave a silver coloured join line. The brown material that you see coming from the joint could be flux from a sloppy amateur repair or actually epoxy if someone tried to resecure a loose rib that way. Either way you’ll need to mechanically (non marring scraper) remove this before starting the browning process. The old story, you can do it fast, do it cheap, or do it nice. You only get one choice.
 
I'm in no rush. I'd rather sit here at night watching gun bluing videos on YouTube than at some bar or doing something productive anyway. It'll get done in due time as to not make a total fool of myself lol
 
Two years ago, my friend, Buck & I built a 40-70 Sharps Straight on a Uberti 1885 action that started life chambered in 38-55. We made the barrel from scratch and when it was done, we rust blued it. The receiver is bright blued and the barrel is rust blued. Colourwise, the only difference I see, is the barrel is "flat black" and the action is shiny. The 38-55 barrel was later fitted to a Danish Rolling Block that had a color cased action!
 
Two years ago, my friend, Buck & I built a 40-70 Sharps Straight on a Uberti 1885 action that started life chambered in 38-55. We made the barrel from scratch and when it was done, we rust blued it. The receiver is bright blued and the barrel is rust blued. Colourwise, the only difference I see, is the barrel is "flat black" and the action is shiny. The 38-55 barrel was later fitted to a Danish Rolling Block that had a color cased action!

Just curious here, how do you define making a barrel "from scratch"? Everyone has different ideas of what that means.
If it was really, truly from scratch, do you have details about the build somewhere that I can read? I have always wanted to build a deep-hole drill/rifling machine, a la Bill Webb.
 
Just curious here, how do you define making a barrel "from scratch"? Everyone has different ideas of what that means.
If it was really, truly from scratch, do you have details about the build somewhere that I can read? I have always wanted to build a deep-hole drill/rifling machine, a la Bill Webb.

We started with a 40" length of 4140 HTSR steel, set it up in the lathe to true up the ends. Then in the deep hole machine to drill, ream and cut the rifling. Then on the mill to machine the flats. Some bench time to smooth out the machining marks. Then the final length was established, the barrel was cut to length, threaded, crowned and fitted to the action. Dovetails were cut and the barrel was D & T for modern scope mounts (to work up loads) Then the barrel was rust blued. and the rifle was assembled. I shot it for almost two years with a tang sight. It now sports a 6X Malcolm scope in sliding mounts. I took a number of short videos with my phone of different operations and saved on my computer.
 
Glad you are looking to bring back a nice old gun . I'm assuming you are going to use the rust / rust blue process. Something I have played with some , with mixed results is a combination of rusting and rust bluing the receiver. No manuals for this ! ha Put a few splotches of your rusting solution on the receiver and let it sit your normal time 8-10 hrs. then boil. You may need to do this 2-3 times. You should have some blues and greys . Next put your rusting solution over the spots that weren't covered the first time and let rust 8-10 hr before carding off. A couple of coats just rusting and carding will give you some blues and browns. Not color case by any means but if you get lucky it will look good. If it turns out to be terrible just sand back and leave things in the white.
 
We started with a 40" length of 4140 HTSR steel, set it up in the lathe to true up the ends. Then in the deep hole machine to drill, ream and cut the rifling. Then on the mill to machine the flats. Some bench time to smooth out the machining marks. Then the final length was established, the barrel was cut to length, threaded, crowned and fitted to the action. Dovetails were cut and the barrel was D & T for modern scope mounts (to work up loads) Then the barrel was rust blued. and the rifle was assembled. I shot it for almost two years with a tang sight. It now sports a 6X Malcolm scope in sliding mounts. I took a number of short videos with my phone of different operations and saved on my computer.

Very cool, thanks for sharing.
 
Glad you are looking to bring back a nice old gun . I'm assuming you are going to use the rust / rust blue process. Something I have played with some , with mixed results is a combination of rusting and rust bluing the receiver. No manuals for this ! ha Put a few splotches of your rusting solution on the receiver and let it sit your normal time 8-10 hrs. then boil. You may need to do this 2-3 times. You should have some blues and greys . Next put your rusting solution over the spots that weren't covered the first time and let rust 8-10 hr before carding off. A couple of coats just rusting and carding will give you some blues and browns. Not color case by any means but if you get lucky it will look good. If it turns out to be terrible just sand back and leave things in the white.

That’s a very interesting idea for a project like this.
 
I'm just going to go for it with everything blued except for the brown barrels and if I don't like it I'll start over.....but before i blue everything im going to peice it together with a few bare/polished pieces like side plates, hammers, top lever and the forestock peices just to see how it looks....if i hate it ill blue all of it.....I do need to purchase a carding wheel...I have wire wheels here but too coarse imo. I did some reading and the carding wheels are quite a bit finer than what I've got.
In regards to carding, is it preferable to have the carding wheel on a drill press or can I accomplish the same results with a bench grinder with the safety guards removed? Yes I understand removing the safety guards can cause harm to myself, im willing to accept the consequences lol
 
Be aware that any power tool including carding wheels, no matter how carefully used, will damage engraving, angles, edges, etc. No matter if the surface is already rusted, pitted or damaged but I’ve seen far too many otherwise fine guns ruined by heavy handed ‘restoration’.
 
Will carding be required with cold blue? It was my understanding I'd only need to card the barrels as they would be browned rather than blued?
Any polishing will technically damage the engraving as you round out sharp edges slightly but I don't imagine there will be any way to get around that aside from leaving it alone lol
 
Cold blued parts do not need to be carded. Carding removes the surface rust and there is none when cold bluing.
You cannot run a carding wheel on a direct-drive grinder. Carding wheels have a rather low maximum RPM. I run mine on the drill press at 390 RPM, which is the highest RPM within spec on the drill. It works very well at that speed and I have not noticed any surface degradation.
 
I'm just going to go for it with everything blued except for the brown barrels and if I don't like it I'll start over.....but before i blue everything im going to peice it together with a few bare/polished pieces like side plates, hammers, top lever and the forestock peices just to see how it looks....if i hate it ill blue all of it.....I do need to purchase a carding wheel...I have wire wheels here but too coarse imo. I did some reading and the carding wheels are quite a bit finer than what I've got.
In regards to carding, is it preferable to have the carding wheel on a drill press or can I accomplish the same results with a bench grinder with the safety guards removed? Yes I understand removing the safety guards can cause harm to myself, im willing to accept the consequences lol

A carding wheel is a great investment, but it will peel everything off if you spin it too fast. Most of them only have a small bore, and would need to get opened up to fit a bench grinder. 500 rpm is about right for carding, 1700 is just too much.
You can get similar results for a few cents with degreased 0000 steel wool, but it takes longer, and doesn't quite give the same burnished look.
Are you doing hot rust or cold rust bluing?
 
I'd like to hot rust blue, im considering having my neighbor fab up a hot tank setup for me as he has a shear and sheet metal brake...im thinking a dual 6"x10"x48" tank with one 6x10 tank for fresh water to rinse. Maybe a tad ambitious but it'll also depend on what he wants to charge me to make it. If the cost prohibits hot bluing then cold it is. I'm looking into an old school locker or cheap gun locker to make a water box with heater as well
 
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