Unfortunately, it's NOT normal. See above.
Bolt has forward play when closed
- Thread starter NightOwl07
- Start date
Unfortunately, it's NOT normal. See above.
That is exactly the same as a Model 98 setup. Indeed, every centerfire bolt action is set up in similar fashion.
The problem is one of semantics, and as several have already said here it is not unusual for the bolt body to have movement, which means that the entire bolt assembly moves with it because the entire firing pin assembly is screwed into the body.
Ted
Can you explain to me in technical terms how would it be possible that the bolt body which is engaged by its thread to the bolt sleeve thread can move forward if the lugs on the bolt body are locked into the receiver grooves? If you read all my posts you would notice that a bolt body on my M85 has no movement whatsoever. Also, I examined a few M85 rifles before I decided to buy mine and I've NEVER seen any movement of the bolt body after locking the bolt assembly. The OP is talking about 1 mm movement!
Like I said, what really can move is a guide rib on the bolt body if you understand what I'm talking about. This problem has already been identified for the M85 and posted on You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXLWFKabs9U / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYv-mvMiUZw. Watch the videos and then you will see what I'm talking about.
No movement when the firing pin is cocked because the firing pin spring is pulling the bolt rearward against the receiver lugs.
When it's not cocked, there should be some "play" or it will be a jamomatic.
If you don't have any play it's probably due to the poor quality of the machine work on these rifles. I sold my pair shortly after receiving them.
Well, I don't have any "play" and my M85 is not jammomatic. So far, I put 1300 rounds through the pipe and never had any problems. I shot Chinese non-corrosive, Barnaul, Sellier&Bellot and Tulammo without any hickup. For the price I paid, my M85 works very well and I'm not going to sell it. Attached a Vortex 4-12x40AO and its super.
You sold yours, good for you.
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You mean the entire bolt assembly (a bolt body+bolt sleeve/hammer/firing pin unit) moves or only a bolt body? How much is that bolt move? The problem with the OP is that he claims that the bolt body moves 1 mm. On my M85 the bolt assembly doesn't move regardless of cocked or uncocked.
I'm sure I can if you can explain what part you are calling the bolt body and what part the bolt sleeve.
The bolt body is the part that has the locking lugs behind the bolt face, right?
The locking lugs turn into the locking lug recesses in the receiver ring, right?
And, the locking lugs have to have some clearance in order to function properly, right?
Consequently, the bolt will have some movement when there is no pre-load from the cocked firing pin.
The firing pin is attached to the cocking piece. A cocking piece is necessary in order to have a functioning trigger.
The cocking piece is secured inside the bolt shroud, which is what I presume is what you are calling the bolt sleeve, since it is the part that screws into the bolt body.
The entire bolt assembly is inside the receiver, but only the locking lugs determine the position of the assembled bolt in the receiver.
This is neither complicated or hard to understand.
Ted
I think you're a bit confused as to how a typical bolt action locks into the receiver. I think it would be beneficial to you to Google a cutaway view of a M98 action, which is similar to the M85 and just about any forward locking bolt action really. EDIT: maybe an action with out the reinforcing "c" ring of the M98 might make it more obvious. Rem 700 cutaway?
On the M85 the locking lugs don't lock into a tight fitting groove. They lock by rotating into alignment with locking lugs on the receiver which are only contacting the rear of the bolt lugs. What stops the bolt from moving forward is most likely the extractor or bolt face hitting the breech face of the barrel. I suppose if there was enough clearance between the bolt and the barrel, then the bolt handle would stop forward movement at some point. I didn't mount a dial indicator and my feeler gauges are at work but judging by eye, I would say I have close to 1mm of movement, or what could be perceived as that much in my M85.
On my M85 if the bolt isn't cocked and I push forward on the bolt handle alone, it feels very solid. If I put one thumb on the rear of the bolt handle knob and my other thumb on the back of the bolt sleeve and push evenly with both hands the movement becomes a lot easier to do and more apparent. You should try this on yours. It could just be stiff like mine and not moving easily.
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Well, 4 pages later and no one has suggested taking the rifle to a gunsmith - so.....to the original poster:
If you suspect that your rifle may be in a dangerous condition, and you don't have either the knowledge or skills to ascertain that it is safe yourself (apologies if you do, making an assumption based on the posts here), take it to a gunsmith to have it checked out.
You didn't post photos or video of the problem, I don't have any of your fired brass to measure or the bolt to examine - so anything I might tell you would be a best guess. Your health and safety is worth whatever a competent smith charges to check it out - and no anonymous person on the internet is going to pay your bills if you take their advice and have an accident.
Just some food for thought.
If you suspect that your rifle may be in a dangerous condition, and you don't have either the knowledge or skills to ascertain that it is safe yourself (apologies if you do, making an assumption based on the posts here), take it to a gunsmith to have it checked out.
You didn't post photos or video of the problem, I don't have any of your fired brass to measure or the bolt to examine - so anything I might tell you would be a best guess. Your health and safety is worth whatever a competent smith charges to check it out - and no anonymous person on the internet is going to pay your bills if you take their advice and have an accident.
Just some food for thought.
I just read 4 pages and I can't say it any better.
Everyones best guess. Take it to a gunsmith as said above.
Sorry if I confused anyone. The entire bolt moves, which suggests play in the lugs and locking groove interface.
After this whole thing started I borrowed a bore scope to have a look at what exactly is going on inside. Turns out as another poster said a few posts above the lug channels only engage at the rear and it's the bolt face + barrel end that stops any forward movement. There is absolutely no sign of wear or metal fatigue on the engaged surfaces.
I was initially concerned because the first thought through my head was maybe the metal hardening was improperly done and there's deformation of load bearing parts. This does not appear to be the case so far and as many have pointed out it isn't unusual either. I don't wiggle the bolt like that so I may not have noticed it on other rifles I own and don't currently have them handy to check. I'll keep an eye every few rounds next time I'm out for any signs of it worsening or metal fatigue but right now I think it's just something I happened to notice one day.
Learned something new, thanks folks.
After this whole thing started I borrowed a bore scope to have a look at what exactly is going on inside. Turns out as another poster said a few posts above the lug channels only engage at the rear and it's the bolt face + barrel end that stops any forward movement. There is absolutely no sign of wear or metal fatigue on the engaged surfaces.
I was initially concerned because the first thought through my head was maybe the metal hardening was improperly done and there's deformation of load bearing parts. This does not appear to be the case so far and as many have pointed out it isn't unusual either. I don't wiggle the bolt like that so I may not have noticed it on other rifles I own and don't currently have them handy to check. I'll keep an eye every few rounds next time I'm out for any signs of it worsening or metal fatigue but right now I think it's just something I happened to notice one day.
Learned something new, thanks folks.
