Bolt release problem - any ideas?

Claven2

Claven2

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I got some Norinco 5/20's today and tried them out in a M305. It's got a Rooster33 bolt release.

For whatever reason, with these mags, when I put in an empty mag and rack the op rod, the bolt holds back, but the followers slip up over the tip of the bolt release a little. When I push the bolt release, it slips down the side of the follower and jams up and the bolt stays back.

Anyone else have this happen?

I'm going to load some dummies tomorrow and see if it still does that with dummy rounds to cycle, but I suspect it may...?

Unfortunately, I don't have other mags on hand to try out. I don't recall it doing this before with other mags though?

I've checked and the roll pin does not appear bent.
 
It is much easier to test this with dummy rounds than empty mags and forcing the bolt release(you are working against the mag spring).
 
So the proper operation of the M14 bolt release depends upon having actual rounds shot?

That doesn't make sense, does it? Shouldn't it work on an empty mag as well?

I'll load some dummies tonight to test it, but this sounds off a bit...?
 
Remember, the M14 platform was not designed for use with a bolt release. There is no way that the tab on the bolt lock, even the aftermarket release ones, are going to be able to force down the follower. The magazine is just not designed for it.
 
Yeah, but the problem is, even without pushinc the bolt release, the mag follower issometimes slipping over the edge of the release and jamming it tightly enough to make the mag difficult to use.

I'd consider going back to OEM (after I determine if it's my mags or not or if it still does it using dummy rounds), except I no longer have the original one - it's long lost.

D'oh!
 
Jacks_username said:
Remember, the M14 platform was not designed for use with a bolt release. There is no way that the tab on the bolt lock, even the aftermarket release ones, are going to be able to force down the follower. The magazine is just not designed for it.
Click to expand...

absolutely, unequivocally, disagree with that statement.
there is a LONG track record of folks using extended bolt releases in the m14 platform. they work just fine in most cases. try telling Ron Smith his extended bolt release is no good LOL........ these items from various manufactures have been on the market for YEARS ..... i have never seen one comment like Jack's till now. No offense Jack's username, but unless you can point to documented failures and bad mouthing of the extended bolt releases....... i disagree with what you have posted.
 
Claven2 said:
Yeah, but the problem is, even without pushinc the bolt release, the mag follower issometimes slipping over the edge of the release and jamming it tightly enough to make the mag difficult to use.

I'd consider going back to OEM (after I determine if it's my mags or not or if it still does it using dummy rounds), except I no longer have the original one - it's long lost.

D'oh!
Click to expand...

I'll trade you an HR usgi bolt stop AND a norc bolt stop, both new, with pins n springs, for your extended one hehehehe
 
in that case m14doctor - what do you think the problem could be? I'm using one of the Rosster33 releases from a few years back. the roll pin seems unbent and a cursory inspection tells me it's either in spec of very close to it. the sharp flange/tab on the back of the mag follower is *just* slipping over the front face of the bolt release, and not every time - maybe 50% of the time. It's doing it with both the mags I have.

If I actuate the bolt release, the follower rides up the face of the bolt release and jams the gun about 80% of the time. the other 20% of the time it works as advertised.

It looks to me that if the bolt release was a few thou longer or if the floower tab were a few tou closeer to the release, everything would be peachy-keen.
 
M14Doctor said:
I'll trade you an HR usgi bolt stop AND a norc bolt stop, both new, with pins n springs, for your extended one hehehehe
Click to expand...

That would be worth considering IF I knew it would fix the problem - it may not???

So far, my plan of action is to:

1) Try a bunch of different M14 mags over at my buddy's place tonight to see if it's mag dependent. I doubt it is though, or i would have heard before about this problem with Norinco mags???

2) load some dummy rounds and fill the mags with them, then cycle the gun until the mags are empty and see if it works under those conditions.

3) remove the bolt release and re-install with a fresh rollpin to see if that helps.
 
i've had this issue with a few mags and swapped in usgi mag followers, in that particular rifle it solved the problem.
to be honest without seeing the rig i could not say either way what the problem could be.
were the mags purchased aftermarket or are they the ones that come with the rifle?
can you photograph this issue clearly?
 
OK, here are the pics.


1) The followers for the mags:
DSCN1292.jpg

Note that the mag on the right works a bit better than the mag on the left. The mag on the right will at least engage the bolt hold-open after the last dummy round. Depressing the bolt release doesn't close the bolt, it only moves it forward to hit the back of the follower and then jams up. So if you are not trying to close the bolt on an empty mag, it works. The mag on the left, however, will not engage the bolt hold open at all - the bolt holds open only when it strikes the back of the follower. You have to pull the bolt back and manually engage the bolt hold open to remove the mag from the gun, otherwise it's jammed.

My theory is that on the left mag, the ledge's angle is too steep, whereas the mag on the right is more vertical at the ledge. The left mag moves ht bolt holdopen up far enough to the point where it slips off the edge and because below the ledge is in relief due to the angle, nothing bites before the holdopen drops too low to work. I'm not ready to mess with it yet, but I think filing the follower more vertical *MIGHT* fix it, or it could make it worse if my theory is wrong...?


2) Mag catch seemingly working properly, follower ledge stays under the bolt release (barely):
DSCN1296.jpg


3) Remove mag, re-insert, rack op rod, this time follower slips up over the bolt stop:
DSCN1294.jpg


Now no mag, bolt held back to see how the bolt stop lies:
DSCN1302.jpg


Bolt stop in question:
DSCN1298.jpg


Bolt:
DSCN1297.jpg
 
Last edited:
Claven.....

You have to stop over-thinking this situation.

Have you ever noticed that most firearms in general don't close that well on an empty mag when depressing the bolt release on a rifle, slide release on a pistol...????

Some will in fact close without much issue but not as easily as with a mag with rounds.

Either try with dummy rounds or go to the range and try with live. Give the M14 the ARSlap and see if the bolt releases properly with a round in the mag.

The angle at which the release works and the tension of the M14 magspring won't make for easy release with empty mag.

Take home point: If it works with rounds, you are good to go.
 
Yes, I have an aftermarket oprod guide, also a Rooster33.

I just got back from my buddy's place where we had access to 15 mags. The gun worked flawlessly with 10 out of the 15 mags.

I tried all 15 mags in another M14 (an M305) and all of them worked fine - including my mags.

What I think is going on is that the tab on the GI and Norinco bolt releases is a few thou longer than the Rooster33 releases and therefore more forgiving with mags that are a little out of spec. The rooster33 unit seems to work flawlessly with USGI mags, but intermittently with Norinco mags.

I might have a spare USGI release in a bin of parts I have in storage and if so, I'll swap it out since most of the mags I have access to are Norinco and I really want the gun to work reliably with those cheap mags. If I can't find it, I'll be in the market for one and I might have to take M14Doc up on his offer! ;)
 
Winz said:
Claven.....

You have to stop over-thinking this situation.

Have you ever noticed that most firearms in general don't close that well on an empty mag when depressing the bolt release on a rifle, slide release on a pistol...????

Some will in fact close without much issue but not as easily as with a mag with rounds.

Either try with dummy rounds or go to the range and try with live. Give the M14 the ARSlap and see if the bolt releases properly with a round in the mag.

The angle at which the release works and the tension of the M14 magspring won't make for easy release with empty mag.

Take home point: If it works with rounds, you are good to go.
Click to expand...

yup, i agree. it's not often i've tried just dropping the release with an empty mag, any time i have done so there was no issue. it's when the mag is loaded that it matters anyways.
 
Claven2 said:
I might have a spare USGI release in a bin of parts I have in storage and if so, I'll swap it out since most of the mags I have access to are Norinco and I really want the gun to work reliably with those cheap mags. If I can't find it, I'll be in the market for one and I might have to take M14Doc up on his offer! ;)
Click to expand...

Or swap it out for a Smith. If you like the tactical release. I sure like mine. No problems at all with any mags.
 
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