Borden school unique 7,62 training rifle
- Thread starter Biloba
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sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Been too long since I played with one, but I'm pretty sure the C3 had the same barrel profile as the M82. Which should be a straight taper all the way through.
Can you measure the barrel at action/tapper/muzzle?
- Looks like Pama profile
Can you measure the barrel at action/tapper/muzzle?
- Looks like Pama profile
The barrel I installed on a PH action set up in a C3 stock is also marked LBS; 14" twist. Barrels like this were readily available, and were used to make up 7.62 competition rifles.
When the rules for DCRA/PRA competition changed, and rifles no longer had to be service pattern, all sorts of rifles were set up on LE, Mauser, P'14, M1917 actions. These rifles turn up regularly. Sometimes they are very well done, sometimes they are pretty basic. The common denominator was that they had 7.62x51 barrels, bored and chambered for issue ball ammunition. When the rules changed again, and service ball was no longer available, they disappeared from competition almost overnight.
When the rules for DCRA/PRA competition changed, and rifles no longer had to be service pattern, all sorts of rifles were set up on LE, Mauser, P'14, M1917 actions. These rifles turn up regularly. Sometimes they are very well done, sometimes they are pretty basic. The common denominator was that they had 7.62x51 barrels, bored and chambered for issue ball ammunition. When the rules changed again, and service ball was no longer available, they disappeared from competition almost overnight.
Lee Enfield
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That is not a C3 barrel.
It shouldn't matter though, someone built an L39 clone with L42 pattern front sight. Nice rifle, and I would bet that it will shoot beautifully.
C3 and C3A1 barrels have a Mauser torque shoulder, then a straight taper to the muzzle.
C3 barrels were 26" long.
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I can remember driving to the range with Art Grundy one day and we were talking about the old days when he used a Lee Enfield like that for target shooting.
Like many guys in this thread, I thought a rifle like that has a lot of character.
Art's response to me was that he couldn't sell it fast enough. Art was funny.
Like many guys in this thread, I thought a rifle like that has a lot of character.
Art's response to me was that he couldn't sell it fast enough. Art was funny.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Wasn't there something about the Enfield action been popular for "longer" range, because the action "flex" would help reduce the vertical-spread of army issued ammunition?
Back in the 80s, seems like quite a few shooters had one rifle for the short-range (300/500/600) and another one for the long range (800/900)
Back in the 80s, seems like quite a few shooters had one rifle for the short-range (300/500/600) and another one for the long range (800/900)
Yes, LE based rifles were believed to compensate because of action flex, compared with more rigid actions. This was only of benefit when shooting issue ball. With quality match grade ammunition, LE based target rifles were no longer competitive, and disappeared from competition.
the P14 was used free floated for short ranges, The N0 4 for intermediate and the No 1 for long distances if you could afford all three. I think that it had to do with the way the rifles were bedded as well as action flex to be compensating for the ammo used, Its been a long time but I think the no !'s were centre bedded and the no 4 was bedded at the front of the stock so the harmonics were different.
It was pretty common for SMLEs to have their barrel bedding "packed" with greased cork, etc. An additional band was installed just behind the nosecap. There was pressure applied to the barrel, and the additional band helped keep the pressure applied, not relying solely on the rather thin handguard to do so. No. 4s were often center bedded, pressure pad at the forend tip being removed. The forend tip pressure could vary because of the length of wood between the action and the tip.
Service ball, both .303 and 7.62, tended to have velocity variations. Velocity variation tends to produce vertical stringing, most noticeable at long range. The group would be oval, the scoring rings are round. The vibration pattern of the Lee Enfields tended to launch slower bullets at the top of the vibration cycle, faster bullets at a lower point. This tended to make groups rounder. This only made a difference with service ball.
A lot of the .303 ball shot better than the IVI 7.62 ball, which did not have a good reputation. DA 7.62 was respected. In general, it was considered more difficult to get a service configuration 7.62 conversion to shoot as well as one in .303. After rifles no longer needed to be service pattern, there were all sorts of modified LEs. The OP's rifle is an example.
As far as SMLE grouping capability is concerned, I believe that in Australian James Sweet's book he mentions that a good SMLE, properly configured for competition, shooting decent .303 ball, could hold 3 moa. Doesn't sound impressive, but when the size of the scoring rings on the standard targets is considered, such a rifle would be competitive.
Service ball, both .303 and 7.62, tended to have velocity variations. Velocity variation tends to produce vertical stringing, most noticeable at long range. The group would be oval, the scoring rings are round. The vibration pattern of the Lee Enfields tended to launch slower bullets at the top of the vibration cycle, faster bullets at a lower point. This tended to make groups rounder. This only made a difference with service ball.
A lot of the .303 ball shot better than the IVI 7.62 ball, which did not have a good reputation. DA 7.62 was respected. In general, it was considered more difficult to get a service configuration 7.62 conversion to shoot as well as one in .303. After rifles no longer needed to be service pattern, there were all sorts of modified LEs. The OP's rifle is an example.
As far as SMLE grouping capability is concerned, I believe that in Australian James Sweet's book he mentions that a good SMLE, properly configured for competition, shooting decent .303 ball, could hold 3 moa. Doesn't sound impressive, but when the size of the scoring rings on the standard targets is considered, such a rifle would be competitive.
