Bore cleaning while at the range for precision

lucas.c

lucas.c

Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Location
Ontario
Hi guys, I’m just wondering if anyone actually cleans the Bore of their rimfire rifles while at the range after they’ve put a certain amount of shots down range. Obviously if your bore and maybe even the action starts to get fouled it could start to affect your accuracy. So does anyone do this? I have a bore snake so I’m thinking it could be worth just running it through the barrel (wet or dry?) after every 100 shots or so?
Thoughts?
 
On my Savage MK II TR I have not cleaned the barrel since 2013 which is +5000 rounds ago. There is a school of thought that cleaning .22 barrels impeds accuracy. I am sure that you will hear differently. Best to find out for yourself

All my other .22's are cleaned just because of my OCD but the TR is left alone, I have not seen any change in accuracy since 2013 and it's very very accurate. It's duracoated so there's very little maintenance, a little oil in the action and an external wipe down.
 
Depends on what you are doing. If you are shooting higher end ammo like Lapua and Eley, they use particular types of lube on the bullets. If you clean the barrel, you will need to shoot a bit before the groups will settle down again, similar to how you need to foul a centerfire barrel after you remove the copper when cleaning.
If I am shooting the dirtier cheap ammo, I will clean after a dozen boxes or so, for no other reason then the action and bolt are starting to get grimy and I might as well do the barrel at the same time. I do this at home the night before, I have better things to be doing on the range then cleaning.
 
If you are testing various brands, then run a clean patch down the bore a couple of times between BRANDS

Each match ammo brand will use their own special lubes and they aren't always compatible. After the swab, you will need 10 to 30rds to settle the bore so I will shoot all the CCI options, swab, then all the Fed options, swab, etc.

Now that I am competing, I run SK and Lapua ammo and they seem to cooperate well so don't need to clean beyond function. In a bolt rifle, I am unsure when I would bother.

In a semi, I will wipe out fouling in the receiver area, trigger and bolt face often... anything that can malfunctions. jAlso, lube the moving bits. I will swab the chamber and throat but rarely the bore itself.

Each rifle will have a story to tell, so try different approaches and use the one that your barrel favors

Jerry
 
I agree that different lubes have diff effects on accuracy. One train of thought suggests that you run cleaner patches between diff brands to keep the lube from 'compounding' into troublesome residue. I feel that is a 'real' issue and follow that advice. Again, a few 'fouling shots' as Alpheus advised seems helpful. I would advise to also clean more often than ' a few dozen boxes' = several hundred rounds. I've tried that before and resulted it in a .22 shotgun :rolleyes: 2"+ 'groups' at 50 yds. A cheap cleaning kit can go into uyour range bag - only a few ounces extra.

There are lots of threads on this and other forums on 'cleaning' with many diff plans for action. I have recently purchased some of the BoreTech C4 (about $45 + tx for 16 oz.on amazon.ca)and a Teslong borescope (ca.$67 + tx) recommended in the thread below. I found that ALL of my rifles had significant Carbon deposits and have found C4 can get it all, tho burned in carbon in my .223 with several hundred rounds takes 'soaking' and many patches and brushing. All of my guns were thoroughly 'cleaned' after every outing, and also between brands with a couple patches, yet they all showed carbon deposits.
So, I advise frequent cleaning, even at the range. I have read on many forums that 'most' BR shooters clean often at the bench. Look for comments from grauhanen, maple57, and others - you'll find varying opinions :rolleyes:

https ://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1184335
 
Wow thanks guys, lots of great points, and I had no idea about the actual lubrication of the bullets. I’m running a bolt action and still trying to figure out what the ol’ cz is going to prefer. For a start I think my game plan will be to clean between brands. And then just clean the Bore at the end of the day unless it looks like my groups start to open up without reason after many rounds down range. I’m just going to use a bore snake if I’m at the range. Seems like a quick and simple thing to do at the range.

Thanks guys, great info
 
I clean after every target at a match. A good barrel does not take many shots to bring it back in. Would rather shoot 5 to 10 shots to bring it back in versus a 9 instead of a 10 during a match.
 
The school of thought that cleaning a .22LR barrel is bad for accuracy is a small, undistinguished one, characterized by truancy, curriculum deficiencies, and a low graduation rate.

At the same time, many shooters would be unlikely to see a notable difference in accuracy if they don't clean regularly or even daily. When it comes to accuracy, those using bulk ammo should not worry too much about cleaning.

For the typical shooter the strongest argument for cleaning at the range would be when testing different ammos for accuracy. The posts above about different bullet lubrication affecting accuracy are valid. If testing different ammos it's a good idea to patch the bore and shoot a few foulers to prepare the bore before using a different make of ammo. Without some cleaning the new ammo will not shoot as it would otherwise. If it's not possible to patch the bore at the range when switching between different ammos, shooting a few magazines of ammo before shooting to measure should help make the testing worthwhile.

If anyone is wondering about what serious competitive shooters such as those at the Olympics and benchrest shooters do about cleaning the answer is quite simple. They clean regularly, certainly every day. Many will patch the bore after about a hundred rounds. Of course these shooters are serious about their rifles, ammo, and accuracy. As benchrest competitor and champion shooter Dan Killough succinctly puts it on Eley's webpage on cleaning, "A clean gun shoots better than a dirty gun." (See h t t p s://eley.co.uk/barrel-cleaning-for-improving-your-shot/ It's worth noting Eley is in the ammo business, not the gun cleaning business.)
 
Interesting points. At this stage in the game I’m trying to find the best ammo for my cz457 with a factory match CZ barrel. Perhaps later in the game I’ll upgrade the barrel once my skill set starts to improve I can upgrade barrels and go through the ammo search process again.
Sounds like I’ll lean towards cleaning between brands of ammo and then just keep it clean after every 100 or so rounds
 
Mystic Precision said:
Those that compete at the Olympic level don't need to ask a shooting forum on how to clean their rifles

I bet F1 car engineers do alot of things differently then a F150 owner.... :)

Jerry
Click to expand...

Indeed. Clearly Olympic shooters do not need such information from this kind of forum. They have other serious competitors and coaches to ask for advice if needed. And race cars are different than pickup trucks. Is there a relevant point beyond the observations?
 
And how would you compare the 'average' 50BR rifle vs an off the shelf poodle popper?

See the analogy now ? All good fun... Different rifles, different needs. Most off the shelf rifles need their rifling filled before they start to shoot well.

Jerry
 
So in a regular competition setting(not Olympic level) would you show up at the match with your barrel pre fouled and filled from your choice ammo so that you start shooting with the barrel already ‘primed’?
 
Mystic Precision said:
Yes, and No... what you need to confirm is what is the fouling needs to get it shooting... and then how many rds before it looses that edge

Then you adjust your rd count accordingly.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Jerry is right on the money here. Every barrel is different, and custom barrels with tight match chambers will react differently than factory barrels with more generous chamber dimensions. You just have to test and compile your own data set.

CZ's barrels, being finished with some sort of "lapping" process, shouldn't need too many rounds to settle down after being squeaky clean. I'd venture 10-25 rounds would be typical. Others might note some rifles need 50-100 rounds to settle down (ruger, remington, savage?).

I can say my custom Lilja barrel is usually on the money after 5 rounds after being cleaned. With it's tight match chamber, I'll see accuracy start to fade around 100 rounds fired, so I like to keep it clean and will clean on the bench at the range at this interval. My Shilen barrel starts to fade around 70 rounds. It's not a major loss of accuracy, but enough to make those 1/4" groups much more difficult to achieve.

As a rough generalization, I'd expect most barrels should easily be able to handle 200-300 rounds fired with "acceptable" accuracy, that is, mostly 1/2" groups at 50 yards. The "accuracy window" is a moving goal post. The more demanding you are, the smaller your round-count window will be. Loosen your standards, and the window grows accordingly.
 
To your question about what to do pre-match.

As the guys have said, do some testing on your rifle. Once you have it shooting the way you want it to, stop and clean it at that point.

Then start shooting again, and count how many rounds it takes to get back to where it was before you cleaned it.

If it does well right off the get-go, you've got a good one. Count yourself lucky.

If it's 5-10 rounds, and you have the option of that many sighting shots before you go on score without getting pressed for time, then it's safe to go to your match with a clean barrel. The 5-10 warmup shots will both ensure your barrel is ready for scoring shots, and you'll get yourself warmed up as well.
If it takes, say 20 rds before settling down, I'd advise you to leave it dirty at your last shooting session.

If you get few, or none, allowed sighting shots, then you need a different strategy. Either go with a fouled barrel or know where your rifle shoots until it warms up and gets fouled.

I have a centerfire rifle that always throws the first shot about 1.5 MOA low and slightly right when it's clean. Velocity is also almost 100 fps slower on the first shot. It gradually comes back to point of aim over the next 2-3 shots.
My matches allow 2 convertible sighters and then 10 shots on score. By the time I fire the third shot of the day, I'd better know exactly where the rifle is going to put that bullet.

The alternative is to arrive with a dirty barrel and probably be within 1 MOA on my first shot of the day.
I've done it both ways a few times, to see how predictable it is.
I have a friend that used to fire a couple shots into a ditch on his way to a match in the morning to foul his barrel. This was back in the '60s, I doubt that would be well received today..

I normally clean my centerfire rifles after every outing, but if I have a match within a week of my last range session they stay dirty for that reason.

My .22s get deep cleaned every 300-400 rds. At points in between, they get a clean patch followed by an oiled patch before going back in the safe.

If I'm shooting different brands of ammo for testing, they get a dry patch or two between brands, then at least 5 fouling shots before shooting for effect.
Pay attention to where those fouling shots go, it'll give you insight as to how many fouling shots that rifle needs with that ammo before it settles down. It may be 5, it may be 15 before you see results. If you don't see consistent results within 50 rounds, you can safely assume that rifle and that ammo don't play well together.
 
Last edited:
We shoot 2 benchrest matches a season with the IBS target at 50 yards. The guy that won all the time was showing up with a clean gun. One shooter with a Brno No.2 cleaned his barrel and went from 615 points to 733 points. That's 118 points from cleaning. My son bought a new CZ 452 Varmint and shot 728/750 in his first match. We didn't clean it for 3 years and his score kept dropping every match. Nothing to lose by cleaning so we bought a Possum Hollow bore guide, a .20 cal rod to clear the ejector and used Butch's Bore Shine as recommended by Lilja Barrels and his score jumped from 680 to 726/750. So ya I'm convinced a careful proper cleaning does something. I score the local matches and keep the records.
 
Mystic Precision said:
And how would you compare the 'average' 50BR rifle vs an off the shelf poodle popper?

See the analogy now ? All good fun... Different rifles, different needs. Most off the shelf rifles need their rifling filled before they start to shoot well.

Jerry
Click to expand...

The analogy is irrelevant. No one here is an Olympic shooter, although many posters may drive a F150.

Your advice was that it's not necessary to clean a .22 bore:

Mystic Precision said:
Now that I am competing, I run SK and Lapua ammo and they seem to cooperate well so don't need to clean beyond function. In a bolt rifle, I am unsure when I would bother.

Each rifle will have a story to tell, so try different approaches and use the one that your barrel favors
Click to expand...

The point about different bores needing different approaches is surely more useful to readers looking for advice about cleaning.

What I said above about what serious shooters do with regard to cleaning was meant to show only that, to give an idea of the frequency of cleaning undertaken by the most committed shooters. It was a comparison. It was not meant to impugn your advice, even though perhaps you took it that way.

As I said in post #8, the strongest argument for cleaning at the range for the typical shooter was based on the desirability to clean between different ammos when ammo testing -- just as you have advised.

To maintain the best accuracy possible for a bore, it is necessary to clean it periodically. As Rabid points out above, 200 - 300 rounds between any cleaning should not compromise acceptable accuracy. While those with costly rifles, premium ammo, and serious expectations may clean more frequently, shooters with more everyday rifles may well not need to clean as often.

Of course, those competitive shooters who would rather not clean at all or only infrequently may win the support and appreciation of other shooters, especially when competition is fierce.;)
 
the only thing I've noticed about leaving the bore dirty is the burnt powder residue will attract moisture and create a "pebbled" surface in the bore. the effect is especially bad in winter because the powder doesn't burn near as completely as in summer. really didn't like the view in my borescope. lesson learned.
 
barsik said:
the only thing I've noticed about leaving the bore dirty is the burnt powder residue will attract moisture and create a "pebbled" surface in the bore. the effect is especially bad in winter because the powder doesn't burn near as completely as in summer. really didn't like the view in my borescope. lesson learned.
Click to expand...

This is why I always at least dry patch and oil between serious cleanings. I like the rifles I have now, I want to keep them in good shape for as long as I can.

My only real reason for the 300-400 rd thorough cleaning interval is to keep a stubborn carbon ring from forming.

So far, it seems to be working for the past several years of use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom