Bore "Ring" in my Gewehr 98

[Nabs]

Hey all,

I picked up a Gewehr 98b in decent condition and took the other day to clean the rust and gunk off her parts. One thing that I noticed, and was informed by the seller, is that the bore has a "ring" in it ~ 7-8 inches down from the muzzle. From what the seller told me, the "ring" may have been created by someone firing too high of a pressure round through the bore. The seller also mentioned that it should still shoot fine but I was wondering would type of results should i expect when I take my Gewehr 98b to the range ?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

A Bulge in the Barrel?

 

[Andy]

A "Ringed Barrel" is usually the result of firing a round when the bore is obstructed (typically with a clump of dirt). It's not unsafe and could possibly produce decent accuracy given that it's not at the muzzle.

 

[desporterizer]

I handled that gun, nice piece. I wouldn't worry too much about the ring.

 

[Nabs]

Thank you for the quick responses. On another note, I noticed a marking underneath the rear sight and it is "s.S". From my research, this symbol is linked with the Patrone 88 s.S rounds or .323 diameter. Am I correct in assuming the bore had been modified to fire .323 rounds or should I slug the bore to find out ?

 

[longbranch*]

Gew 98

Agree with Andy. Last 6 inches is what counts...thats what I tell the wife anyway...ar!
Geoff

 

[Nabs]

I handled that gun, nice piece. I wouldn't worry too much about the ring.

The pictures sent to me did not do her justice, the stock and overall condition is unbelievable. All parts match except for the bolt (which appears to be WW1 issue), the floor plate, and a trigger guard screw.

I'm thankful that no-one else picked her up while I was still searching around.

Now, if I could just get a sling for her...

 

[Nabs]

Instead of making another topic, I thought I would post this related question here.

After spending most of yesterday cleaning the rust deposits and what not of my Gewehr 98, I noticed that there were still "rust pits" on some areas of the rifle. The receiver and bolt are the worst areas so far (my Outers Rust Remover could only take so much off) but look alot better than they did before the cleaning session. The "rust pits" look like they go right down into the metal itself. Any ideas on how to remove the rust without damaging the bluing ? I can upload pictures if you want to see what I am talking about.

Thanks.

 

[sunray]

"...wouldn't worry too much about the ring...." It's a weak spot in the barrel.
"...should I slug the bore..." Definitely.
Pitting is caused by rust. The steel has literally been eaten away. Usually not dangerous.
"...remove the rust without damaging the bluing..." 0000 steel wool and oil. A light touch with a fine, brass, wire wheel in a bench grinder is faster. Eye protection is mandatory.

 

[Recce21]

Along the same lines

A buddy of mine is willing to sell his 1898 G98 to me but has no idea how much it is worth (and frankly neither do I) What would a fair "buddy" price be? I have no idea of the condition but based on previous experience with his rifles, a small amount of rust is to be expected.

 

[Andy]

"...wouldn't worry too much about the ring...." It's a weak spot in the barrel....

You imply that it's dangerous - how so? You really can't throw that out there without some kind of explanation. Actually the weakest part of the barrel by far is at the muzzle, which is the smallest in diameter and unsupported at its opening. The ring is a few inches back of the muzzle and at a point where peak pressures encountered are significantly lower than at the chamber, and lower than even a few inches back towards the chamber. What could happen and what is the likelihood? Can you provide a single example of an unsafe incident caused by a ring? I know that my gunsmith would simply comment that accuracy might be compromised and to shoot it. If it was closer to the muzzle and accuracy was poor, he'd just counterbore it if barrel length needed to be maintained.

A buddy of mine is willing to sell his 1898 G98 to me but has no idea how much it is worth (and frankly neither do I) What would a fair "buddy" price be? I have no idea of the condition but based on previous experience with his rifles, a small amount of rust is to be expected.

These are worth a lot more than the numerous RC K98's that go for about $350. A good one (complete, unaltered and with a good shootable bore) would start at $500. No one can really say much more without pics or at least a detailed description.

 

[10x]

Bore rings are visible. They show up as a shadow in the rifling when you use a bright point source of light. They can sometimes be measured on the exterior of the barrel as well.

I have seen several "ringed" barrels. And I have had a ring mysteriously disappear when I gave the barrel a good soak in ammonia. That one turned out to be the only 1/2" of bore that was actually clean on the gun. This "ring" wasn't visible but could be felt when pushing a cleaning patch through the bore.

 

[Nabs]

I can definitely feel the ring when I clean my rifle with my cleaning rod, it feels like a slight "jump" and then my cleaning rod catches the rifling again.

A buddy of mine is willing to sell his 1898 G98 to me but has no idea how much it is worth (and frankly neither do I) What would a fair "buddy" price be?

I would do a bit of research on the Gewehr 98, simply googling the term will yield an endless amount of pages with which to source from. Since only approximately four million German Gewehr 98s were made, even a decent shooter commands a high price compared to the 30 million German Kar98ks that were made and are seen to be everywhere. The biggest thing to look out for is the condition of the rifle. Has it been sporterized ? How is the stock, the parts in general ? What is the condition of the bore (most bores just require about 10-15 minutes of cleaning and then shine like new after) ? Do the parts match (a big determiner in the price) ? Is it in early war configuration (ones that are unaltered and matching, and are quite rare considering war time modifications, and are in early war configuration, between the dates of 1914-1916, usually start at a minimum of $1000 and go up from there). As for a buddy price, it is between you and your buddy to decide but make sure you are atleast informed about the rifle you are trading.

0000 steel wool and oil. A light touch with a fine, brass, wire wheel in a bench grinder is faster. Eye protection is mandatory.

As for the rust pitting, I'm not sure I like the idea of taking the receiver against a wire wheel bench press. I probably get ahold of 0000 steel wool but what type of oil would be useful ?

 

[10x]

I can definitely feel the ring when I clean my rifle with my cleaning rod, it feels like a slight "jump" and then my cleaning rod catches the rifling again.

snip

As for the rust pitting, I'm not sure I like the idea of taking the receiver against a wire wheel bench press. I probably get ahold of 0000 steel wool but what type of oil would be useful ?

Look through the bore at a point source of light bright enough to light up the rifling but not give glare. Look for a shadow in the area where you suspect the ring to be..

0000 steel wool works well to remove rust.
So does a brass wire wheel.
I have taken to using CLR to remove rust as well.
I have used a 12 gauge brass bore brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool in an electric drill to do a quick remove of the rust on some guns.
Brake Kleen will get carbon and powder fouling out of the bore.
Ammonia will get copper out of the bore as well.

 

[Recce21]

I can definitely feel the ring when I clean my rifle with my cleaning rod, it feels like a slight "jump" and then my cleaning rod catches the rifling again.



I would do a bit of research on the Gewehr 98, simply googling the term will yield an endless amount of pages with which to source from. Since only approximately four million German Gewehr 98s were made, even a decent shooter commands a high price compared to the 30 million German Kar98ks that were made and are seen to be everywhere. The biggest thing to look out for is the condition of the rifle. Has it been sporterized ? How is the stock, the parts in general ? What is the condition of the bore (most bores just require about 10-15 minutes of cleaning and then shine like new after) ? Do the parts match (a big determiner in the price) ? Is it in early war configuration (ones that are unaltered and matching, and are quite rare considering war time modifications, and are in early war configuration, between the dates of 1914-1916, usually start at a minimum of $1000 and go up from there). As for a buddy price, it is between you and your buddy to decide but make sure you are atleast informed about the rifle you are trading.




As for the rust pitting, I'm not sure I like the idea of taking the receiver against a wire wheel bench press. I probably get ahold of 0000 steel wool but what type of oil would be useful ?

Well I called him so that I could look at it and he confirmed something for me. It is a 1890 Amberg made Gewehr 88 with Regimental markings B10RR2. He said the condition is fair to good. He also has a 1889 Terni in fair condition he is looking to unload on me. I am going to look at them tomorrow though.

He was confused on what's what when he described them to me before.

 

[Nabs]

As previously suggested, some pictures would be helpful in identifying the markings.

I have an Commission Rifle 1890 Erfurt that was given to the Turks in 1916. I also have a book called "German Gew. 88 'Commission' Rifle" and it has been instrumental in telling what the markings meant and what my rifle had been through. Post some pictures and I will see what I can help identify.

As far as the regimental markings, my guess is that it is a 10th Bavarian Reserve Regiment, Rifle #2. A very helpful source is www.gew88.com. The forums there have some people who know far more about Gewehr 88s than I do.