Bought Baikal 30-06 SXS **UPDATE**

Republic of Alberta

Republic of Alberta

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Well I just bout one of these side by sides today. I got home to late to shoot it so I will have to give a range report on Monday night but here is what I know:

WOOD
The gun is not the nicest looking firearm I have ever layed eyes on, the but stock is quite ugly with some of the poorest checkering I have ever seen. Also the forming of the stock in the grip and butt pad areas are not very well done. The forend is the "spinter" style, decent wood and better checkering than the butt stock.

MEATAL
The metal is finished ok on the outside, not a deep blue by any means. The cambers are a little rough with tool marks but I have seen worse, the bores are mirror finishd. Between the two bbls is a thin strip of tin above and below to hide the gap between the bbls. The bbls are fixed to the mono block as well as a rear bbl band just down from the ends of the chambers and an end band at the muzzle.

SIGHTS
It has a sks type front poast, screw it up or down for elevation. The rear blade sight as a notch and it slides in a dove tail with a locking screw. There is a 3/8" rib for scope mounting with a notched milled out to accept a ring with a lug to prevent recoil from moving the ring forwards.

TRIGGER
The triggers are about 6 pounds with some creep. Useable but not great. the front trigger fires the right bbl and the rear the left bbl.


REGULATION
The center of the bbls is the jack screw which allows one to regulate the rifle. The screw can be adjusted in "clicks" which apperently will move the point of impact from each bbl closer or farther appart by 1cm per click at 100m. The ends of the bbls are fixed togeter by a bbl band. It seems the left bbl is pinned to the band and the right bbl is allowed to float (for regulation). It also seems there is not much gap (if any) to let the right bbl simply be pushed left or right by the jack screw. It is my guess that the jack screw causes the bbls to bow out in the center rather than simply pushing the floater bbl around. If this were the case increasing tension on the jackscrew would bow the bbls out in the center and cause the bbls to shoot closer together (bullets would cross). We will see how it realy works. In the owners manual is an accuracy statement wich says that for a 4 shot group each bbls must shoot 10cm groups and the mean point of impact between each bbl must be within 3cm of the point of aim at 100m Now the bad part... in my manual someone has crossed out the 3cm and wrote in pen 7.5cm. Not good!! IT seems the factory could not get this gun's bbls to be within 3cm of each other and settled on 7.5 cm writing it in pen. I am realy hoping that it is a horizontal deviation of 7.5cm rather than a vertical one as the horizontal can be adjusted with the jack screw and different loads (bullet weights, powder charges). A vertical one probably cannot be fixed so easily. The bullet weight the gun is regualted for is 10.9grams or 168grains? I think.

I will shoot this thing on Monday and give a full report. How well it is regulated is going to be the most important and interesting thing for me.
 
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I am curious as to how it shoots. I posted a bunch of pics of the one I fondled on a different thread. That one had decent wood. How do you find the sights? They were extremely uncomfortable to me, I had to #### my head way over to line them up. What loads do you plan on trying?
 
Are you going to pretty it up?

and

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Sight are useable (for the type of range the gun was intended to shoot) but not that great. I remember the pics you posted, the rear sight was far to the right, causing a right handed shooter to have to put his cheek over the comb to see. My gun has the rear sight almost dead center.

In that thread that you posted with pics I gave a quick yak on regulating a double with different loads or something like that. I was not speaking from experience, just a few things I have read. It may be worth a read for someone who does not know what "regulation" means.
 
I've been waiting a long time for someone to buy one of these and test it. If it shoots ok it could probably be cleaned up to look half decent, and maybe get a decent ghost ring sight installed on it.
 
Last i heard was,that 45-70s are available already with a $1200.- pricetag attached to it.I read in an Austrian Gunmag that the Baikal is surprisingly accurate,considerind that it wasn't made to German or Austrian standards,when it comes to Doubles.The groups obtained were about 2''-2.5'' shooting both barrels alternately @100 yards with factory ammo.
Hope,i could help.
 
Yes, I would be realy happy with 2.5" four shot groups at 100 yards with any bullet weight. Actualy I don't think I could shoot a 2" group with the factory sights even if the rifle was able to.

When shooting a double you must shoot it free standing with only your forend hand resting on something. Apperently a double may not shoot the same way if shot from the bench vrs off hand. The gun must be able to recoil naturaly. With that in mind a 4" group would be more than good for me.

I sized up some new brass tonight after work and will load up some rounds tomorrow. I will use 165g Hornady interlocks with H4350 or IMR 4350 because that is what I have on hand. H4350 would be best as it is more temp. stable. I might try some 180g Partitions or 200g Accubonds if I have any left. I may also buy some 165g and 180g factory rounds .

I think in a perfect world I would like to regulate the gun to 200g partitions and get 5" or less at 100 yards. That may not happen but it is something I may work towards.
 
varminter said:
Last i heard was,that 45-70s are available already with a $1200.- pricetag attached to it.I read in an Austrian Gunmag that the Baikal is surprisingly accurate,considerind that it wasn't made to German or Austrian standards,when it comes to Doubles.The groups obtained were about 2''-2.5'' shooting both barrels alternately @100 yards with factory ammo.
Hope,i could help.
Click to expand...
Any idea where the 45-70 would be availible from? Thanks.
 
Well, I shot it. I put about 60 rounds through it today. I did all my shooting at 50 yards, standing up and resting my forend hand on a sand bag. I shot 4 shot groups, Right,Left, Right Left bbls without letting bbls cool.

First thing I shot was some very light 150g loads (55g H4350 and a Balistic tip)that I had made up a year ago. My fist group was not so good my second one was the best of the day, about 1.5". The gun actualy regulated well with those loads. Both bbls went to about the same hoizontal area but there was a bit of vertical spead. The average group was about 3" and about a foot left of center.

Then I shot some factory Winchester 165g Power Points. This is where things went for ####. After fireing the first two shots I had a hard time pushing the lever over to open the action. I noticed that the primer from the left bbl had quite a big pucker mark where it had flowed into the firing pin hole. The mark is not just around the fireing pin but actulay raised into the hole. It seems the pins do not remain out after firing, they pop out then go back in. This alows the primer to flow into the hole. I fired to more shots and again had a hard time opening the action. The group was well regulated, the left bbl slightly to the left and the right a little to the right. The group was about 3".

I had a box of Winchester 180g Power Points so I shot those. I fired 2 shots and when I went to open the gun I had a hard time moving the lever. I looked at the Face and saw that the bbls had been pushed off face. I opened the gun and saw the primer pucker mark again. I shot one shot throug the Crony, it was 2730 from the 23.5" bbl. I stopped shooting factory ammo. It is too hot for this gun, not that the pressure is to high from the factory loads just that the gun cant handle the regualr pressure from the 30-06 . I seriously doubt that the gun would last long shooting loads of normal pressure. I guess it would shoot off face very quickly. I also noticed that the safety would not move to the safe position if the right bbl was uncocked. To put it on safe I had to push the right trigger forward then the safety switch would slide. I know for sure that it worked fine the day before. ARGHH

I then shot a load of 53g IMR 4350 with a 165g Hornady. I had the OAL at 3.210 It seems this gun does not have much freebore. The gun shot a 3.5" group again regulated well. The right bbl printed over the left, making a square. The gun opened normaly.

I shot 55g load with the Hornady. It made a nice 1.75" group exept for a high flier from the right bbl opening the group to 4" Gun opened normaly.

Next was a 57g load. The left bbl shot left and the right right. The group was a 5" square. The qun did not open easily but was not as bad as the factory loads. But still too much pressure!!

I then went home and made up a bunch of 53g loads with the 165g Hornady since it worked ok. I wanted to adjust the jack screw so I turned it 5 clicks towards the butt. It crossed the bullets by 4.75" but at least they were on the same hoizontal plane. I began to turn the jack screw back to where it was set before. I moved it a few clicks at a time then shot, then moved it some more. The left bbl did not move much, an inch or two but the right would realy move around. I brought both bbls back together so they printed on top of each other again. The left bbl seemed to move quite predictably but the right did not do so well. I quite often had a high flier. BTW the right bbl is the floating bbl and the left is the fixed bbl.

I then shot some light 180g loads, 49g IMR 4350 with a Hornady Interlock BT. I measured thes at 2360 FPS These bullets crossed by 6" Nortmaly a heavy bullet will shoot wide of each other, and I saw it happen with the 2 180g factory loads I shot. But due to the low velocity and light recoil these bullets crossed. I adjusted the jack screw, turning it towards the muzzle to bring these bullets together. I ran out of shots and they were crossing but only by 2" Also all the bullets were on the same hoizontal plane exept one high flier from the right bbl again.

I shot some 180g Hornadys with 51gof IMR4350 at 2430FPS. These bullets regulated perfectly with were I last left the jack screw set . The increased recoil stopped then from crossing like the last load did. Also there was always one high flier from the right bbl to spoil each group. Without that right bbl flier I had 3 shots into an inch, but some times that right bbl (it would be the first shot one time then the second one the next) would print high and opend the groups to 2 or 3"




-So here is what I know. This gun cannot handle factory 30-06 pressure. I don't belive the loads to be over spec pressure I just think the gun cann't handle it. Mid range hand loads only.

-There is soemthing wrong with the safety now, problably needs to get looked at.

-The jack screw works but is quite touchy. Looking at the end bbl band, there is a lot of room left to move the Right bbl towards the left, meaning that I could problably get 200g bullets to regulate (Heavy bullets shoot wide causing you to bring the bbls closer together) To bad I wont be able to load the 200g up to a reasonable velocity.

-The Right floater bbl keeps shooting fliers high. There is room for the bbl to move side to side as the jack screw adjusts it. Unfortunatly there is also some play up and down. I can actulay see a little gap between the bbl band and the bbl right on the top side of the bbl. I would guess if I could tighten up the bbl band to close that gap and stop the bbl from moving up and down the high flier would go away.

-The gun shoots terribly to the left, I needed to bring the rear sight all the way over to the right to get it on the paper.


-Last but not least YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! I don't think the 30-06 is a good Idea in this frame. Mine dosent seem to be able to handle it. The 45-70 would be much better suited to this rifle.
 
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The flowing primer could also be an indication that the firing pin hole is too large. Would it be safe to assume that CIP standards are used in Russia? As double rifles go, this model is modestly priced, but no matter what the price, the rifle should be able to accept factory standard ammunition without the problems you are reporting. It sounds as if .30-30 would be a more appropriate cartridge.
 
Yes actualy I was thinking 303british or would be perfect. My hand loads ended up being around there anyways. Plus it is a rimmed cartrige. The extractor set up required for rimless cartriges is not the greatest. There is one tiny little spring loaded tooth to grab the rimless case. I could see that tiny tooth breaking or getting stuck down as the spring pressure is not that hard.

I would guess the rifleing is deep enough for cast bullets but I have never shot cast so don't realy know.


I might work on the gun to get the right bbl from shooting high fliers. I may try to peen the end bbl band down to reduce the amount of slop between it and the bbl. BTW we are taking about a gap thinner than a human hair but it still makes a difference. It actualy looks as the factory has done this already and it may be the method they use to get the two bbls shooting on the same horizontal plane.
 
tiriaq said:
The flowing primer could also be an indication that the firing pin hole is too large. Would it be safe to assume that CIP standards are used in Russia? As double rifles go, this model is modestly priced, but no matter what the price, the rifle should be able to accept factory standard ammunition without the problems you are reporting. It sounds as if .30-30 would be a more appropriate cartridge.
Click to expand...


Yes I assumed that the flowing primer was due to a large firing pin hole with sharp edges. Also due to the fact that the pins retract on fireing and do not remain out to plug up the hole. The left is much worse than the right. I will guess that it is over sized. I guess I could measure them.

I do not know what Russian standard pressure are for the 30-06. I would guess that they are the same?
 
.303 would be a good option. Don't know if the tiny extractor claw would handle a sticky casing. It certainly sounds as if one of these rifles is a work in progress. It would even be an improvement if the stocks were not factory checkered. Then they could be contoured and finished without having to deal with the factory checkering.
 
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