Brass and accuracy

powdergun

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
244   0   0
Here is a question:

In the scheme of things where does the quality/uniformity of brass rank in terms of it's effect on accuracy. That is focusing only on the components of the round and not on the gun how would you rank:

primer
powder/bullet combo
uniformity of brass
seating depth
 
When I was shooting HBR rifles, I used to weigh the brass, turn the necks and uniform the primer pockets and flash holes in an attempt to gain ultimate accuracy.

Later, as I was getting out of the game I tried about 50 cases of mixed commercial and milsurp brass. I had to turn the necks and trim to length so they would fit in the chamber but that was it. The brass was re sized in Bonanza small base Match dies then loaded with a Wilson press. I used the same load of W748 under 135 grain flat based Bergers with CCI BR2 primers. The results startled me. There was little if any difference to the painstakingly prepared brass.

Now, let me take the experiment a bit further. I then reloaded the mixed lot of brass with the same components but just used the Bonanza die set in an RCBS Jr press. There was a significant difference this time in many ways. The first was bullet run out. Not a lot but about .006 on average with the worst as much as .010.
When shooting the bullet with .006 and less run out, accuracy was on par with the cartridges loaded on the Wilson press. This is where things went awry, When the cartridges with up to .010 run out were fired, the groups opened up from .325 at 100yds to .970.

The rifle in question here was a full sized Mod 700 Rem short action with jewel 2oz trigger, bedded properly and put together by Nobby Uno with a Match Grade "Hart" barrel with 1-15 twist and was chambered in 308Win. I wanted more velocity to shoot the 135 grain bullets in the cross winds without haveing to hold off so much for windage. 6X Burris swcope was used.

I then used the same cases/components in a Rem 700 SA, hunting rifle. The rifle was an off the shelf specimen without any frills. I went through the whole process all over again. This time, the results weren't significantly different from the previous test. The groups opened up of course. The Wilson press groups averaged .900 on the button with only one flyer that was totally unexplained out to 2.65. The Bonanza dies performed about the same as before with similar run out. This time the group opened up to 1.350 inches.

The problem with the Bonanza dies causing run out was caused by the bullet seater. It was just to sloppy because it didn't fit the ogive of the bullet properly. The chamber in the factory rifle was a lot more generous and the throat was deeper than the HBR rifle as well, which gave, IMHO, to much fee bore and effected accuracy.

There are many things that will effect your accuracy, inconsistant bullet jacket thickness, throat depth/wear, powder, twist rate, bedding and alignment of the loading equipment used. That's just the beginning.

If you're using your rifle for hunting, groups at 100yds that are less than 1 1/5 inches are fine. If you're not going to shoot more than 300yds, about maximum for most, even 2 inch groups ar OK. Getting the bullets to the proper place on target is up to you.
 
1) primer
1) powder/bullet combo
1) uniformity of brass
1) seating depth
1) Quality Dies
2) Shininess of brass

Mix and match as you see fit. :D
 
Last edited:
Now this is an interesting thread guys. I'm dabbling away at this myself and there's seemingly no end to the yarns about brass tweaking, not to mention tools for sale to do it with. Until now I thought this was of major importance.

Oh well,,have tools will tweak I guess :redface:.
 
1) Powder/Bullet
2) Seating depth
3) Primer
4) Brass

1&2 are self explanitory

3- I have found that as long as your primers are from the same lot, you will be fine. I usually re-do a small ladder test when I start on a new batch of Primers.

4- Tumble, resize & trim..... That is all I usually do to my brass.

I am not a bench rest shooter, I reload for S-n-G and for hunting..... I am not an expert.

Cheers!
 
My experience has been the press and seating die are big factors as well as being pretty anal about weighing charges and brass prep. I am going to do some testing with identical loads/brass/bullet with Br4 and 400 primers to see if the Br4's are worth almost double the price cause I go through a couple of bricks in my 204's and 223's every gopher season.
 
1 & 2 - Bullet and powder
3 - The shooter
4 - The gun
5 - Everything else

I did quite a few experiments including weighing my brass, matching up manufacturer head stamps, uniforming flash holes, weighing each bullet.......none of it made enough difference that it was worth the effort.

I took 50 Winchester WW cases, polished them using a Lee holder and my cordless drill. Polished them with NuFinish. Trimmed to length. Deburred each case............ I picked out 30 that were within one grain of each other. Picked out 30 bullets that were EXACTLY 180 grains. I used Federal 215 magnum rifle primers. After I was done loading, I weighed each cartridge. Every single one was within a grain of all the others. You want to know what accuracy difference it made to my "pet 7828 SSC" load???? Zippo...nothing....zilch.

At 50 yards, I shot the standard "all into one" cloverleaf with 4 of the 5 shots in the group. Invariably, I would have one flier...still less than an inch.

With my usual "whatever brass" I can do the same thing with dirty cases, trimmed to lenght.....mixed primers....even large pistol primers mixed in there.

Powder and bullet combo are first
The shooter is 2nd
The gun is 3rd
For the difference everything else makes.......it's window dressing.
 
My experience has been the press and seating die are big factors as well as being pretty anal about weighing charges and brass prep. I am going to do some testing with identical loads/brass/bullet with Br4 and 400 primers to see if the Br4's are worth almost double the price cause I go through a couple of bricks in my 204's and 223's every gopher season.

That will be interesting to see the results of. I've historically used CCI450 primers for my 223's but I'm going to try the CCI400 and possibly the Remington when available.
It's my thought that all of the variables work together to form an accurate/consistant load. If you delegate one to the back burner, you may not be getting the optimum results.
Mike
 
Of course, you have to know the Twist of your gun barrel.
1)_ Bullet
2)_ Powder
3)_ Primer
4)_Brass
5)_Seating
6)_ Shooter.:sniper:
 
primer before seating depth Jerry? That is interesting, I would have thought the primer to have very little influence.

As with everything in shooting, it is based on levels of accuracy.

If you happy with 3rds 1" at 100yds, many things work just fine.

If you are tweaking to do 10rds SUB 1" at 300m, ALOT matters.

Also, the rifle/barrel you have will limit what benefits all this tweaking will give you.

primers play a critical role in how your load ignites and can help or hurt with vertical dispersion at LR. I use CCI BR2 cause I like the piece of mind and I have seen vertical cut in half in some loads/rifles.

in the 223, I use CCI 450 cause it works better for my loads and rifles then BR4.

As always, there isn't a simple answer cause the 'system' you are testing will be affected to varying degrees by any/all of these changes. However, the items I have listed are what I have found to have the most impact on my results.

You guys may enjoy these articles I have written on load tuning.

http://www.mysticprecision.com/htm/rifle.php

Jerry
 
Back
Top Bottom