Brass Questions

[ARH77]

Hi,

I'm getting a 308 shipped next week to me, it'll be my first real rifle. I'm thinking that I will want to start reloading sometime in the next 6 month - year. But to start off with I figure I'll just purchased ammo.

All I plan to do is punch paper with the rifle. I'm not too worried about having match grade rounds at the start as I first need a while to learn to shoot a rifle well before I concern myself with precision rounds.

I thought for now I'll just purchase boxes of ammo and save brass for reloading later.... but I'm not sure how wise/realistic this is.


My question(s) is this;

If I bought cheaper Federal Ammo (like Shok Soft or Fusion) could I reuse the brass later in reloading?

How important is good blank brass vs reused off the shelf ammo brass? (such as new Lapua brass vs reusing brass from Federal ammo off the shelf that I shoot)

Is there a difference between Federal cheap ammo brass and Federal Match grade brass that would be work spending the extra money to get the nicer brass now for reloading later? (cheaper Federal is $1/bullet and Match is $2/bullet)

When is the brass not good anymore? (Until the shoulder is out of spec or until it cracks?)

How many reloads do you typically get out of brass before it's no good?

Sorry for the newbie questions.


I've done some reading around and figured out the Powder, Bullet, and Primers I'll likely use for reloading. As well as good starting points for my load, COAL, brass length, etc. It's just the brass that I couldn't find good answers on.

Thanks,
April

 

[LUTNIT]

If I bought cheaper Federal Ammo (like Shok Soft or Fusion) could I reuse the brass later in reloading?

Completely. Federal brass does tend to be a tad soft though and as a result the primer pockets loosen after only a few shots. I prefer Remington brass but a lot of people swear by Winchester.

How important is good blank brass vs reused off the shelf ammo brass? (such as new Lapua brass vs reusing brass from Federal ammo off the shelf that I shoot)

Ultra premium brass like Lapua will be better as they are more consistent in terms of hardness, internal capacity, neck tension, etc. but unless you are shooting match grade bullets in a rifle capable of shooting match grade groups you wont notice much of a difference. I can still shoot 1/2" groups at 100yds with regular Remington brass.

Is there a difference between Federal cheap ammo brass and Federal Match grade brass that would be work spending the extra money to get the nicer brass now for reloading later? (cheaper Federal is $1/bullet and Match is $2/bullet)

Some brands do have different kinds of brass but they are generally marked differently as well. Hornady for example has their normal brass which has the headstamp "Hornady" and their match brass which is headstamped "Hornady Match". I believe most if not all Federal loaded ammo uses the same brass. I don't know if they are weight sorted at the factory or something though.

When is the brass not good anymore? (Until the shoulder is out of spec or until it cracks?)

Split neck or case head separation. Case head separation doesn't often happen unless you full length resize everytime and/or have a loose chamber. In a bolt rifle neck sizing between firings instead of full length resizing drastically improves case life. Some also say it improves accuracy but I have no personal experience with better groups from neck sized brass.

How many reloads do you typically get out of brass before it's no good?

Really depends on the pressures involved, chamber dimensions, brass quality, and a few other factors. With .308 Win using any regular brass (Remington, Federal, Winchester) and neck sizing between firings instead of full length resizing you can expect anywhere from 7-12 I suppose. If you anneal the case necks with a torch every 3-5 firings you may be able to extend that to 15 or so. Some people online report getting 30+ firings from some brass when they anneal every firing but I haven't reloaded any one batch of brass more than 7-10 times so can't say from personal experience. Many say those claiming 20-30+ firings are lying.

 

[maynard]

Federal brass is soft and primer pockets get sloppy, sometimes on the factory loading. Lapua is very good, but not cheap and it will last a long time.

For bulk brass I would look at Winchester. Brass can be loaded until either the primer pocket get sloppy or the neck cracks. Your full length reloading dies will push the shoulder back to factory specs.

 

[Stevebot-7]

The answer to a lot of those questions is "Sometimes and maybe".

From what I have seen, much of the difference between regular brass and match grade brass is how well it is sorted. With regular grade brass you may have to search through and sort out a few of the outliers. I tried to sort some winchester brass by length, until I ended up with about fifteen rows with only a few in each one. Then I just gave up when the barrery on my calipers died, loaded the ammo, and it shoots just fine. I suck too much to get any benefit from worrying about thousands of an inch difference, or a 2 grain difference in bullet weight. Maybe in a few years I'll appreciate the benefits of careful sorting, but for now I'm aiming for the target, I'm not aiming for a particular 1/4" spot.

However, for plinking you should be good with almost any type of brass. All of the manufacturers seem to put out bad lots every now and again. For example I use Winchester brass exclusively and it has given me a total of 2 problems over the course of about 400 cartridges of 308 and about 400 9mm. One problem was when my finger was pushing the brass to one side as I was sizing a 308 case and it dented the neck, and the other problem was when I forgot to flare the case neck on a 9mm before seating a flat tail bullet. It crumpled.
Other people say Winchester sucks and gives them nothing but problems. YMMV.

As for how long brass lasts, it depends on a multitude of factors. How hot your load is can be a major one, it seems half the people who post their loads view the maximum load data as a challenge. With light loads and careful handling some people have lost count of how many times they've reloaded a particular case, other people are lucky if they get one use before the neck splits and the head separates and the primer pocket blows out.
As well, full length sizing is supposed to reduce total case lifespan, and some guns just plain seem to be rough on cases.

 

[Mark-II]

Budget Shooters Supply has/had once fired .308 as well, which is a cheap alternative to buying new brass or shooting factory stuff to get brass. It tends to be military stuff, so you need a primer pocket reamer/swager to remove the crimp. It's a reasonable way to augment your brass supply.

 

[dirtytwo]

Budget Shooters Supply has/had once fired .308 as well, which is a cheap alternative to buying new brass or shooting factory stuff to get brass. It tends to be military stuff, so you need a primer pocket reamer/swager to remove the crimp. It's a reasonable way to augment your brass supply.

Military brass is generally high-quality stuff, but keep in mind that the case walls tend to be thicker to withstand being dented in harsher conditions such as in a belt-fed machine gun. Therefore, you should tone down your loads in military brass given the reduced case capacity. For example, in my M-14, I've reduced my loads by one full grain in Lake City brass than I did in Winchester brass to get the same velocity.

 

[LUTNIT]

I still use starting loads for military brass. If the starting load gives the best accuracy and it goes down as the charges go up I will go below starting loads by 2-5% to see if accuracy gets even better. I have no real concern for velocity as accuracy is my main goal.

 

[TACTICAL111]

Invest in some Lapua cases. Ultra consistent and a pleasure to work with.
Try some of their bullets as well. Excellent stuff.

 

[c-fbmi]

April;

You will read endless opinions about brass quality here and different brands being the "best". After more than 40 years of reloading all types of brass, I prefer Winchester. However I also use Lapua and it seems to be very good brass, Remington and Norma are also good companies and their brass holds up pretty well, BUT believe me when I say avoid Federal and Hornady as that stuff is crap. If you are going to buy factory ammo and get shooting, saving your brass for reloading in the future, do yourself a favor and buy Winchester or Remington exclusively and don't mix brands. Keep all your brass and store it nice and clean as though it were a valuable commodity, because it is. You can ask many of your questions again when you get set up to reload, for now just shoot lots and hoard your brass (and anyone else's left on the ground in your chosen caliber and brand). In the meantime get some reloading books and read up on the process and even a couple of current reloading manuals and read them, prior to embarking on this lifelong journey know as reloading.
Good shooting !!

Douglas

 

[ARH77]

Thanks everyone for your valuable input. I appreciate it a lot.

I'll stick with the Winchester or Remington ammo (to keep the brass) unless I buy new unloaded brass then I'll either do Lupua or 1 shot military.

You all saved me from making the mistake of going with Federal ammo, and ending up with headaches trying to reuse the brass. For that I thank you very much, this is what's so great about forums like this. This is exactly the information and guidance I needed.

I know I have a lot to learn from you all.

Hugs,
April