Brazilian m 1908 7x57
- Thread starter selig
- Start date
They are simply awesome. The inter-war Mausers had so many man-hours of work put into them that you'd be hard-pressed to find anything similar today at several times the price.
Butter-smooth bolt and remarkable accuracy. Enjoy it if you can find one that hasn't been butchered.
They were extremely well made rifles. Made in Germany by DWM.
The tolereances on them are so close that you can cast the chambers and get less than .001 in difference on any chamber dimension.
The Brazilians loaded them up to 2900 feet per second, with a 140 grain bullet.
I have no idea what you mean by decent. That is a very broad brush.
When they're in excellent condition, cleaned up properly and if your eyes and ammo are good, they will shoot sub 1moa groups at 100 yards.
If you buy the rifle, strip it down completely and clean all of the cosmolene out of it. I've come across more than one where the outside of the rifle was well worn from carrying and the bedding of the rifle was still coated in its original cosmolene for long term storage.
The Brazilian Mausers are starting to show their value, especially if they are in VG to Exc condition. They, along with most South American Mausers were very under appreciated. Even now, South American Mausers will cause some collectors that would drool over an identical piece that had seen action in Europe, curl up their noses at the offering of even excellent specimens with lovely crested receivers.
The tolereances on them are so close that you can cast the chambers and get less than .001 in difference on any chamber dimension.
The Brazilians loaded them up to 2900 feet per second, with a 140 grain bullet.
I have no idea what you mean by decent. That is a very broad brush.
When they're in excellent condition, cleaned up properly and if your eyes and ammo are good, they will shoot sub 1moa groups at 100 yards.
If you buy the rifle, strip it down completely and clean all of the cosmolene out of it. I've come across more than one where the outside of the rifle was well worn from carrying and the bedding of the rifle was still coated in its original cosmolene for long term storage.
The Brazilian Mausers are starting to show their value, especially if they are in VG to Exc condition. They, along with most South American Mausers were very under appreciated. Even now, South American Mausers will cause some collectors that would drool over an identical piece that had seen action in Europe, curl up their noses at the offering of even excellent specimens with lovely crested receivers.
Thats it I'm buying it. The fellow selling it to me said that when he bought it in the 80's it was a special pick rifle. It is all matching, no holes, clean and just enough character on the wood (scars) to make you drool. I really have no idea how to rate milsurps, seems like I've caught the bug though. I'll post some pictures of it along with my m96 project as soon as possible.
If you have caught the "bug" you have had it,there is no cure.The only temporary fix is to keep accumulating more and once you get your hands on what sounds like,a very nice Brazilian,you will definitely be going back for more.You will be in good company though,thousands of incurables out there,enjoy!!!
I liked mine so much I bought the same model for my dad, but it was a Chilean, problem is that when I foundout the South Americans had some kinda weird boner for buying 7mm Mausers and stamping these beautiful intricate banners on the receiver... I had to buy 4 more, Venezuelan, Columbian a Peruvian TWO 1909 Argentines [mmmmmm Argentines].... and of course they all came in carbine, cavalry, some naval versions another 8 or 9 countries still to collect and of course multiple models over the years ... I figure I only have about another 40 or so South Americans to collect. 
oh - and the bayonets, Don't forget the bayonets
@bearhunter
Where did you get the data/info for the 2900 fps load? both sets of data here only go up to 2700/2800 [knowing the caveat is they aren't showing the max possible load]
Have you got a load developed that you could share?
@selig
Lets see some pics when you bring her home
oh - and the bayonets, Don't forget the bayonets
@bearhunter
Where did you get the data/info for the 2900 fps load? both sets of data here only go up to 2700/2800 [knowing the caveat is they aren't showing the max possible load]
Have you got a load developed that you could share?
@selig
Lets see some pics when you bring her home
I've done a lot of load development for three 7x57 rifles, incl two Model 700 Rems and a West German re-worked M98 byf 44 that had been re-barrelled to 7x57, probably with an expectation of flogging it to some S. American country. I sportered that one because that was the only way to go if you wanted to hunt with a 7x57 40 yrs ago. The 7x57 has since been "re-discovered" by hunters as one of the best deer ctgs there is.
Most reloading manuals show max loads for the 7x57 with 139/140 gr bullets to be around 2800fps, and this is where I like mine to be. The best propellants for a 139/140gr bullet have proven to be IMR4350, W760, H414, and IMR4320. I still remember a couple of hunting buddies in AB coming out with the then new 7mmSTW shooting a 140gr Nosler at 3300fps with 78gr of powder. I was carrying one of my 7x57s shooting the same bullet with a more sedate 50gr load of W760 at around 2800fps. My muley dropped as quickly as theirs with much less wasted meat and a lot less sound and fury.
Always use a manual when reloading. Start loads low and work up. Best accuracy is often found at less than max velocity. A load that is developed with a particular selection of brass/bullet/primer/propellant in somebody else's rifle may well prove to be beyond max in yours.
Most reloading manuals show max loads for the 7x57 with 139/140 gr bullets to be around 2800fps, and this is where I like mine to be. The best propellants for a 139/140gr bullet have proven to be IMR4350, W760, H414, and IMR4320. I still remember a couple of hunting buddies in AB coming out with the then new 7mmSTW shooting a 140gr Nosler at 3300fps with 78gr of powder. I was carrying one of my 7x57s shooting the same bullet with a more sedate 50gr load of W760 at around 2800fps. My muley dropped as quickly as theirs with much less wasted meat and a lot less sound and fury.
Always use a manual when reloading. Start loads low and work up. Best accuracy is often found at less than max velocity. A load that is developed with a particular selection of brass/bullet/primer/propellant in somebody else's rifle may well prove to be beyond max in yours.
You may realize higher velocities in the 1908 Brazilian without pressure signs as the rifles had a 29 inch barrel. I don't think 2900 fps with a 140 bullet is outside the safety zone at all. You might gain the extra 100fps just with the extra barrel length.
The 7x57 is the grandfather of modern military small arms ctgs. The US got a rude introduction to it during the Spanish-American war where the Spanish used it against the standard US Army .30-40 Krag. This provided the impetus to develop both the Mauser-type M1903 Springfield and the .30-06 ctg. The Brits also suffered heavily from the 7x57 in the Boer War where the Boers used the M1895 Mauser with the 7x57 to telling effect. This was one of the drivers that led the Brits to develop the P14 Mauser-based rifle which was initially chambered for a rimless .276 ctg.
There have been a number of studies which concluded that a .280/7mm bullet in a rimless ctg might well be the optimum military round. The Brits arrived at this in developing their short .280 cal round for their bullpup-style rifle in the late 1940s. The 7mm continues to be a very popular hunting bullet. Besides the 7x57, my other favourite 7mm deer ctg is the .280 Remington.
There have been a number of studies which concluded that a .280/7mm bullet in a rimless ctg might well be the optimum military round. The Brits arrived at this in developing their short .280 cal round for their bullpup-style rifle in the late 1940s. The 7mm continues to be a very popular hunting bullet. Besides the 7x57, my other favourite 7mm deer ctg is the .280 Remington.
Thanks purple, about what I am loading right now, IMR 4064 & 4350 - going to try some VihtaVoure as well as I am finding it to produce very [VERY] consistent groups in my 8mm Mausers.
Got inspired and shot my Brazilian this morning - 40.1G IMR 4350, 2300fps, 120G Horn FMJ, 2.850 COAL, CCI 200 primers, Federal case trimmed & crimped.
That's 5 rushed shots [calling the line & I was leaving] about -4 with a stiff 15kph headwind.
Nothing to complain about there
Got inspired and shot my Brazilian this morning - 40.1G IMR 4350, 2300fps, 120G Horn FMJ, 2.850 COAL, CCI 200 primers, Federal case trimmed & crimped.
That's 5 rushed shots [calling the line & I was leaving] about -4 with a stiff 15kph headwind.
Nothing to complain about there
I use W760 with an almost identical load to Purple's.
It comes across my Chronie at appx 2900fps.
In the Lyman manual, they list W760 at 49.0 grains as being safe in Model 95 Mausers at 39,700 CUP
I also use 47 grains of IMR4320 for slightly higher velocities appx 2950.
These loads aren't reccomended in Model 95 or rifles of their strengths.
Velocity isn't my main criteria. Accuracy is. This is where the Brazilian rifles I have shoot the best. Makes sense, that's where the people Brazil hired to get the best accuracy worked it out to.
Nothing wrong with less or more velocity, as long as you stay within the limits of safety and you get decent accuracy.
Find out what works in your rifle.
We've given you some examples and even though your rifle is similar, it's different.
It comes across my Chronie at appx 2900fps.
In the Lyman manual, they list W760 at 49.0 grains as being safe in Model 95 Mausers at 39,700 CUP
I also use 47 grains of IMR4320 for slightly higher velocities appx 2950.
These loads aren't reccomended in Model 95 or rifles of their strengths.
Velocity isn't my main criteria. Accuracy is. This is where the Brazilian rifles I have shoot the best. Makes sense, that's where the people Brazil hired to get the best accuracy worked it out to.
Nothing wrong with less or more velocity, as long as you stay within the limits of safety and you get decent accuracy.
Find out what works in your rifle.
We've given you some examples and even though your rifle is similar, it's different.
I remember when SIR was selling them new, with the factory test target and Bayo. This was about 1979 or '80 or so.
They were about $159.99 or so compared to $64.99 for the Swede AG42 and $34.99 for the 1891/30 MN with a bayo and tool kit and ammo pouch.
I couldn't afford one.
They were about $159.99 or so compared to $64.99 for the Swede AG42 and $34.99 for the 1891/30 MN with a bayo and tool kit and ammo pouch.
I couldn't afford one.
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Regarding velocities, I have chronographed carefully-handloaded .303 ammunition from the same box as it was run through a Mark III Ross with a 30.5" barrel, and through an SMLE Mark III with a 25.4" barrel. All rounds were shot in identical circumstances, within a 1-hour period. Both barrels were tight and bright, as close to perfect as made no difference. The loads themselves were target loads, somewhat modest in performance but very accurate. Ammunition fired through the 25.4-inch barrel of the Lee-Enfield averaged just over 2300 ft/sec while that fired through the longer barrel of the Ross came out at a bit under 2500 ft/sec. The advantage in favour of the Ross averaged about 160 ft/sec. Given the 29.13" barrel of the 1908 Mauser, I would think it very likely that performance would be in this order of advantage over performance as measured in a 24-inch tube, given the identical loading. Thus, I do not think it impossible to obtain 2900 ft/sec from a Brazilian 1908 Mauser.... and still remain within relatively modest pressures.
My late longtime range buddy and I tried out a pair of these 1908 Brazilian Mausers over a period of years. The GOOD one (perfect bore) was easy to coax into sub-1-MOA groups using the factory sights; scoped, it shot .5 MOA regularly. The second rifle, which I have, has a visibly worn leade but, with the original irons, still will group 1-1/4 inches off the bags. I am keeping this rifle (the BAD one) in memory of a very good friend.... and for its serial number. It is Number 25.
You will NEVER regret buying one of these truly FINE rifles.
My late longtime range buddy and I tried out a pair of these 1908 Brazilian Mausers over a period of years. The GOOD one (perfect bore) was easy to coax into sub-1-MOA groups using the factory sights; scoped, it shot .5 MOA regularly. The second rifle, which I have, has a visibly worn leade but, with the original irons, still will group 1-1/4 inches off the bags. I am keeping this rifle (the BAD one) in memory of a very good friend.... and for its serial number. It is Number 25.
You will NEVER regret buying one of these truly FINE rifles.
