Brenneke Black Magic Slugs or 45/70 buffalo bore....dare i say for bear defense

GunGuy34

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I know not another bear defense thread. The question I want to ask is simple. I have a 14 inch mossy 590A1 and I have 3 inch magnum brenneke black magic slugs. To me that sounds like a potent package.

However, I have owned and have the desire to own another 45/70 rifle, what keeps going through my head is, is there any advantage of a 45/70 over the package I mentioned above. When it comes to close quarters defense against big game. As I know the 45/70 has more range.

thoughts???

I asked in the hunting section as opinions from people that actually kill big game matters.

Here is the ballistic data for Brenneke Black Magic 3 Inch Magnum slugs.


Technical Information •Gauge/Bore: 12
•Shell Length: 3"
•Slug Type: Lead Rifled
•Slug Weight: 1-3/8 oz


Ballistics Information:
•Muzzle Velocity: 1502 fps

•Muzzle Energy: 3014 ft. lbs.
 
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medvedqc said:
we used a lot brenneke slugs for wild boars and red deers in Europe with no issue. do not have experience with 45/70 if my answer helps you.
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Only 45/70 ammo I have shot is the hollow point stuff and Hornady Lever Evolution. Just wondering how the buffalo bore stuff compares.
 
after looking up the buffalo bore stuff, I answered my own question. Now im wondering if you can get buffalo bore stuff in Canada.
 
I have marlin big loop 45-70. 3 years ago I shot a 300lbish bear at 10 yards with lever revolution 325gr, sitting facing me, directly in the chest. blood trail petered out after 100 yards. Did some reading and found out about jacket separation and bullet splash at higher velocities. I got some buffalo bore (came from US, got it from a buddy, can't help you with local source). I think they are the 405gr round, they expand to .520 and stay together, supposed to penetrate 6ft through any animal in NA from any angle. I shot one at my 3/4" hardened (only hot rolled steel I use for 223) steel hanging plates and it made a clean 1/2" hole at 75 yards. I think you can by similar hard cast bullets and duplicate these results, but I highly recommend them.
 
When I chronographed 600 gr Rottweil Brennekes they gave me about 1350 from a 20" barrel. I have a few Black Magics on hand that along with a selection of other stuff I intend to test later this year, but based on the previous testing I've done, I doubt you're getting 1500 fps from the Black Magics. Most 12 ga 1 oz slug loads struggle to make 1550 fps, never mind one that weighs 163 grs more. If you handload, the .45/70 is the clear winner, if not the shotgun might be the better choice if your application is restricted to very short range. A rifle provides higher velocity, flatter trajectory, better terminal ballistics, and the accuracy that allows you to exploit that flatter trajectory. There are cast and jacketed bullets in .458 that range from round balls to 600 gr jacketed numbers, which is about as long as a flat based round nosed bullet can be and still stabilize in a slow twist barrel. I haven't talked to him in quite some time, so I'mnot sure if he's still in business, but Ben Hunchack sent me a few short nosed hard cast .458/550 gr WFNs that would work fine in a .45/70 lever gun.
 
Boomer said:
When I chronographed 600 gr Rottweil Brennekes they gave me about 1350 from a 20" barrel. I have a few Black Magics on hand that along with a selection of other stuff I intend to test later this year, but based on the previous testing I've done, I doubt you're getting 1500 fps from the Black Magics. Most 12 ga 1 oz slug loads struggle to make 1550 fps, never mind one that weighs 163 grs more. If you handload, the .45/70 is the clear winner, if not the shotgun might be the better choice if your application is restricted to very short range. A rifle provides higher velocity, flatter trajectory, better terminal ballistics, and the accuracy that allows you to exploit that flatter trajectory. There are cast and jacketed bullets in .458 that range from round balls to 600 gr jacketed numbers, which is about as long as a flat based round nosed bullet can be and still stabilize in a slow twist barrel. I haven't talked to him in quite some time, so I'mnot sure if he's still in business, but Ben Hunchack sent me a few short nosed hard cast .458/550 gr WFNs that would work fine in a .45/70 lever gun.
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I watch a lot of ammo tests on youtube, tnoutdoors9 is one of my favorites, its not very often that the advertised velocity matches what he gets when he tests it, so I wouldn't be surprised if its lower then 1500fps, but I am Interested to see how much lower.
 
I would use whichever gun you're most comfortable with, the fastest and most accurate. The 12 gauge will make a bigger hole, the .45/70 a deeper one.

I've never been able to get my hands on Brennekes, but I ran some Rottweil Exact slugs over the chronograph and the velocities were actually slightly higher than advertised.
 
I got these for bear defense carry of my Marlin Guide gun. I believe they are +P rounds and very potent. Bear doesn't stand a chance if bullet is placed where it needs to be.
Here: h ttp://www.cabelas.ca/product/35609/hsm-bear-load-ammunition
 
ljones said:
I got these for bear defense carry of my Marlin Guide gun. I believe they are +P rounds and very potent. Bear doesn't stand a chance if bullet is placed where it needs to be.
Here: h ttp://www.cabelas.ca/product/35609/hsm-bear-load-ammunition
Click to expand...

A gas checked 430 gr WFN at 1750 will get the job done, and if you were handloading, that would be the load you'd want to duplicate. I load 480 gr WFNs, in my .458, but the bear wouldn't know the difference.
 
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