I'm in the market for my first semi-auto and I have narrowed it down to either the Beretta Urika 2 or the Browning Gold Fusion. Both fit me well off the self and come with all the options I would like. (mag cutoff, hard carry case, multiple choke tubes, variable gas system) However after reading as much as I can on either shotgun I can't find enough information on the ease of cleaning. I like to keep my stuff clean after almost every trip out and would like to know from those who have had them or even better used both to give their opinion on the the ease of maintenance / cleaning.
Browning Gold Fusion and Beretta Urika 2
- Thread starter corsair_canada
- Start date
Gas Guns
Both are good guns but I found the Fusion that I tried a little to light / whippy for me. Being gas operated they are a bit of a pain to clean. When I went trough my Beretta phase I always used to leave a light coating of Break Free on the action tube and gas cylinder. It made cleaning up easier as usually could wipe off the gunk that the Break Free kept suspended.
Have a look at the Benellis. I'm presently shooting a Supersport and a Super 90 and being a recoil operated action they are one of the easiest to clean.
Both are good guns but I found the Fusion that I tried a little to light / whippy for me. Being gas operated they are a bit of a pain to clean. When I went trough my Beretta phase I always used to leave a light coating of Break Free on the action tube and gas cylinder. It made cleaning up easier as usually could wipe off the gunk that the Break Free kept suspended.
Have a look at the Benellis. I'm presently shooting a Supersport and a Super 90 and being a recoil operated action they are one of the easiest to clean.
It depends on how you define "clean." You can easily strip a 391 to clean the parts that need cleaning. Completely taking down the entire gas system is a little time consuming but doesn't need to be done very often.
Between the Gold Fusion and Beretta 391 Optima 2 I'd take the Beretta but I'm biased because I own a 391 and the Brownings I've tried never fit me that well. In addition to all the features of 391, the 391-2 has a serrated gas piston that helps reduce plastic build up in the gas ring. I played with a 391-2 last week and the owner had put 2 thousand rounds through it without cleaning and it was still going strong.
The other advantage of the Beretta IMHO is that if you need parts they are easier to get from Stoeger than FN. This is "damning with faint praise" because neither are particularly response but Stoeger is better.
The Benellis are great guns and I like the SuperSport and its matte finished twin the Cordoba. The ones I've shot all worked but weren't as accomodating with light loads. Benelli recommends using them with a minimum 1-1/8 ounce 3 dram loads. My 391 Sporting feeds my light 7/8 ounce, 1200 fps reloads, 3" magnums and all points in between. For that kind of performance a little extra time cleaning isn't a problem.
If you decide to get a 391 the most helpful hint I learned was to keeping the magazine cap threads greased and loosen off the cap a couple of turns when you store the gun. The mag cap will seize if it is not lubricated and/or left on tight.
Between the Gold Fusion and Beretta 391 Optima 2 I'd take the Beretta but I'm biased because I own a 391 and the Brownings I've tried never fit me that well. In addition to all the features of 391, the 391-2 has a serrated gas piston that helps reduce plastic build up in the gas ring. I played with a 391-2 last week and the owner had put 2 thousand rounds through it without cleaning and it was still going strong.
The other advantage of the Beretta IMHO is that if you need parts they are easier to get from Stoeger than FN. This is "damning with faint praise" because neither are particularly response but Stoeger is better.
The Benellis are great guns and I like the SuperSport and its matte finished twin the Cordoba. The ones I've shot all worked but weren't as accomodating with light loads. Benelli recommends using them with a minimum 1-1/8 ounce 3 dram loads. My 391 Sporting feeds my light 7/8 ounce, 1200 fps reloads, 3" magnums and all points in between. For that kind of performance a little extra time cleaning isn't a problem.
If you decide to get a 391 the most helpful hint I learned was to keeping the magazine cap threads greased and loosen off the cap a couple of turns when you store the gun. The mag cap will seize if it is not lubricated and/or left on tight.
I define clean as a strip of all moving parts, as I stated above I can go for either firearm. My biggest deciding factor is ease of complete strip for cleaning and ease of field cleaning for that matter. I know the Beretta will go much longer than the Browning before cleaning but also that the Beretta is suppose to be a PITA to put back together. Does that statement have any truth to it?
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Never had a problem putting the Beretta back together. Drop the bolt in and put the cocking handle back in. Drop in the trigger group and the cross pin and your done.
Agreed CB that light loads in a Benelli are not the same as in the Beretta. However that isn't an issue with me as I've always sided with the theory that more pellets in the air gives me a better chance at breaking the bird so I shoot 1 1/8 either factory or reloads.
My definition of clean is the same as " Corsair ". I clean my guns after every trip out so it's more of a chore to clean the gas gun. With the Benelli clean the barrel and wipe down the bolt and your done in 10 minutes- the Beretta will run you about 30 minutes to fully clean the gas system.
I have nothing against the Beretta as I still have a Beretta 20 gauge 391 gold sporting that I'm rather fond of. I've just found the Benelli to be a better gun for me for shooting and ease of maintenance.
Agreed CB that light loads in a Benelli are not the same as in the Beretta. However that isn't an issue with me as I've always sided with the theory that more pellets in the air gives me a better chance at breaking the bird so I shoot 1 1/8 either factory or reloads.
My definition of clean is the same as " Corsair ". I clean my guns after every trip out so it's more of a chore to clean the gas gun. With the Benelli clean the barrel and wipe down the bolt and your done in 10 minutes- the Beretta will run you about 30 minutes to fully clean the gas system.
I have nothing against the Beretta as I still have a Beretta 20 gauge 391 gold sporting that I'm rather fond of. I've just found the Benelli to be a better gun for me for shooting and ease of maintenance.
I've never had a problem getting a Beretta back together either although like REM3200 put the trigger group in last. Doing it with the trigger group installed is less convenient.
I'm reluctant to compare the cleaning ease of both guns because I've never taken a Browning Fusion apart. I asked a friend this morning who owns a 391 and a Browning Gold sporting gun and he gives a slight edge to the Browning and I am assuming the actions are similar.
It's good to read that you are both content with the ease of reassembly, I do like to tinker with things and keep my guns looking nice and a little TLC after a range trip certainly goes a long way to keeping things working. I just don't want a monster of a task to get it done. Half an hour is acceptable which I fully realize will not be the norm for my first few times. 
beretta vs. fusion
Hey CorsairCanada
Here is my humble opinion.
I own both of these fantastic firearms. IMHO they are almost identical when it comes to cleaning, neither being any harder than the other. I am also one of these people who absolutely swear by the use of Break Free CLP in my semi-autos. I am not a mechanical whiz by any means but really I don't feel the semi-autos are much harder than pumps to clean.
After about the second time you take one of them down, you will realize that it is pretty simple. The users manual makes it seem like such a long and drawn out process, but it's really quite simple. Don't let the thought of the takedown scare you for either of them.
I clean my Beretta and Browning likely more often than I need to seeing that the coating of CLP that I leave on all the moving parts prevents the carbon and crud from baking onto the metal and keeps everything well lubricated . The barrel takes the longest portion of the cleaning. Not that it takes any longer to clean these barrels than any other barrel. It's just that by using the CLP you shorten the cleaning time of the rest of the semi-auto.
After you purchase your new shotgun (either the Beretta or the Browning) you will have to take it apart and clean all the rust preventative out of it anyway before you use it for the first time . That gives you the opportunity to put a base-coat on all metal parts with CLP before you use it. By doing that you will not have to worry about brushing or scrubbing off baked on crud after you fire it for the first time. The CLP prevents the crud from baking onto the metal parts, and unlike a lot of other lubes, it does not get gummy or tacky when it gets grimy.
The cleaning process is no harder than this.
Safety on
Bolt back (mandatory because you need the hammer cocked)
forend nut off
forend off
barrel off
piston and springs off
drift trigger group pins out
drop trigger group (do not disassemble trigger group any further)
ease bolt forward
pull bolt handle out
pull bolt and link (attached) out
Spray all loose metal parts with either "Remington Action Cleaner" or "Gun Scrubber", include the trigger group (If you have a coating of CLP on the metal parts before you shoot the shotguns, you won't have to do any more than that to clean it. The grime and crud just rinses off. Both of these cleaners will dry within a minute.
Clean barrel including gas vent holes which are located inside the metal ring on the bottom of the barrel (pretty technical eh?). Oil inside and out with CLP. Wipe dry.
Clean out receiver shell with CLP. **NOTE** The gold paint on the Fusion receiver will smear if you use a strong cleaner on the receiver. Guess how I found that out?? Caught it quick. Won't do that again. Just CLP on the receiver from now on.
Spray a coating of CLP onto all metal parts and into trigger group. Shake dry only. Do not wipe the remaining CLP off.
Re-assemembly:
Slide bolt/link back in
re-insert bolt handle
re-insert trigger group and pins.
put piston and springs back on
put barrel back on
put forend and retaining nut back on
You're done
The only other cleaning note is the main return spring and housing that are located in the stock. You will have to disassemble this (on any semi-auto) and clean it on your initial cleaning from the factory, and only once or twice a year depending on your shooting habits. I cleaned mine after 9 months, and it was hardly dirty at all.
To do this:
Take stock pad off with phillips screwdriver
Use a ratchet set with a 1/2" socket (I think) to take the nut off the mainspring housing
PUll the stock off
remove the cap from the housing (could be just a pin)
remove the main spring and follower. (have protective glasses on of course)
spray the housing off inside and out with cleaner
spray the housing and spring with CLP to lube (inside and out and do not wipe off)
Re-assemble
put spring back into housing
brush the housing threads with grease or anti-seize
put stock and spacers back on
put nut back on with the ratchet set
put recoil pad back on with phillips screwdriver
Here are the major things of note that I find important between the Fusion and Urika.
Urika feels a little more solid and less whippy (although the weights are almost the same)
Auto-feed function of the Fusion ROCKS!!!!! Really handy for trap and skeet. I don't know why, but it really gets me off!!
Urika comes with stock spacers to adjust for drop and cast (I am a LEFTY)
Fusion cast is neutral and drop is only adjustable up 1/8 or down 1/8
Urika drop is larger.
Urika shoots a little higher (better for trap for me)
Both cycled my 1 1/8 target loads without a hitch right out of the box (but after initial cleaning and lube of course)
I think the piston scrubber invention is great on the new Urika 2, but won't be noticeable to anyone except the people who like to go looong periods of time between cleaning. If you clean your guns after each use you likely won't notice a benefit it at all.
Oh, and I see you can now get KICK-OFF on the synthetic stock version of the Urika 2 for a lot less than an Extrema 2. That would be really sweet for a light recoil.
I think you are good to go with either of these great shooting shotguns. Neither will let you down. Go with the one that fits you better and don't look back. Or be like me and buy both.
Hey CorsairCanada
Here is my humble opinion.
I own both of these fantastic firearms. IMHO they are almost identical when it comes to cleaning, neither being any harder than the other. I am also one of these people who absolutely swear by the use of Break Free CLP in my semi-autos. I am not a mechanical whiz by any means but really I don't feel the semi-autos are much harder than pumps to clean.
After about the second time you take one of them down, you will realize that it is pretty simple. The users manual makes it seem like such a long and drawn out process, but it's really quite simple. Don't let the thought of the takedown scare you for either of them.
I clean my Beretta and Browning likely more often than I need to seeing that the coating of CLP that I leave on all the moving parts prevents the carbon and crud from baking onto the metal and keeps everything well lubricated . The barrel takes the longest portion of the cleaning. Not that it takes any longer to clean these barrels than any other barrel. It's just that by using the CLP you shorten the cleaning time of the rest of the semi-auto.
After you purchase your new shotgun (either the Beretta or the Browning) you will have to take it apart and clean all the rust preventative out of it anyway before you use it for the first time . That gives you the opportunity to put a base-coat on all metal parts with CLP before you use it. By doing that you will not have to worry about brushing or scrubbing off baked on crud after you fire it for the first time. The CLP prevents the crud from baking onto the metal parts, and unlike a lot of other lubes, it does not get gummy or tacky when it gets grimy.
The cleaning process is no harder than this.
Safety on
Bolt back (mandatory because you need the hammer cocked)
forend nut off
forend off
barrel off
piston and springs off
drift trigger group pins out
drop trigger group (do not disassemble trigger group any further)
ease bolt forward
pull bolt handle out
pull bolt and link (attached) out
Spray all loose metal parts with either "Remington Action Cleaner" or "Gun Scrubber", include the trigger group (If you have a coating of CLP on the metal parts before you shoot the shotguns, you won't have to do any more than that to clean it. The grime and crud just rinses off. Both of these cleaners will dry within a minute.
Clean barrel including gas vent holes which are located inside the metal ring on the bottom of the barrel (pretty technical eh?). Oil inside and out with CLP. Wipe dry.
Clean out receiver shell with CLP. **NOTE** The gold paint on the Fusion receiver will smear if you use a strong cleaner on the receiver. Guess how I found that out?? Caught it quick. Won't do that again. Just CLP on the receiver from now on.
Spray a coating of CLP onto all metal parts and into trigger group. Shake dry only. Do not wipe the remaining CLP off.
Re-assemembly:
Slide bolt/link back in
re-insert bolt handle
re-insert trigger group and pins.
put piston and springs back on
put barrel back on
put forend and retaining nut back on
You're done
The only other cleaning note is the main return spring and housing that are located in the stock. You will have to disassemble this (on any semi-auto) and clean it on your initial cleaning from the factory, and only once or twice a year depending on your shooting habits. I cleaned mine after 9 months, and it was hardly dirty at all.
To do this:
Take stock pad off with phillips screwdriver
Use a ratchet set with a 1/2" socket (I think) to take the nut off the mainspring housing
PUll the stock off
remove the cap from the housing (could be just a pin)
remove the main spring and follower. (have protective glasses on of course)
spray the housing off inside and out with cleaner
spray the housing and spring with CLP to lube (inside and out and do not wipe off)
Re-assemble
put spring back into housing
brush the housing threads with grease or anti-seize
put stock and spacers back on
put nut back on with the ratchet set
put recoil pad back on with phillips screwdriver
Here are the major things of note that I find important between the Fusion and Urika.
Urika feels a little more solid and less whippy (although the weights are almost the same)
Auto-feed function of the Fusion ROCKS!!!!! Really handy for trap and skeet. I don't know why, but it really gets me off!!
Urika comes with stock spacers to adjust for drop and cast (I am a LEFTY)
Fusion cast is neutral and drop is only adjustable up 1/8 or down 1/8
Urika drop is larger.
Urika shoots a little higher (better for trap for me)
Both cycled my 1 1/8 target loads without a hitch right out of the box (but after initial cleaning and lube of course)
I think the piston scrubber invention is great on the new Urika 2, but won't be noticeable to anyone except the people who like to go looong periods of time between cleaning. If you clean your guns after each use you likely won't notice a benefit it at all.
Oh, and I see you can now get KICK-OFF on the synthetic stock version of the Urika 2 for a lot less than an Extrema 2. That would be really sweet for a light recoil.
I think you are good to go with either of these great shooting shotguns. Neither will let you down. Go with the one that fits you better and don't look back. Or be like me and buy both.
Alright I bought the Urika 2, one question
Is the piston (part "B3") suppose to move around in the gun when the bolt is open?
I already did a complete teardown and cleaning and just want to clear things up before I give it a go.
Is the piston (part "B3") suppose to move around in the gun when the bolt is open?
I already did a complete teardown and cleaning and just want to clear things up before I give it a go.
Rod B
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It's normal to hear the piston moving back & forth in a clean gun..
When the gun is dirty you won't here it due to the carbon & crud causing friction. The gun will still function fine when dirty.
Most people tend to "overclean" these guns.
When the gun is dirty you won't here it due to the carbon & crud causing friction. The gun will still function fine when dirty.
Most people tend to "overclean"
these guns.Excellent choice.
Yep, the piston moves. Normal.
Let us know how you like the Beretta
Another question... I did a complete teardown minus taking the recoil spring out. I got the recoil pad and the stock off but was'nt sure how to get that recoil spring cap off. The thing is threaded and the end is notched for a pair of vise grips? Do I even need to get to the recoil spring for cleaning at this point?
I've owned a 391 for a couple of years and a 390 previously and never took either down that far.
I know a couple of guys with high mileage 300 series Berettas and can't recall any of them needing a new recoil spring. I'd suspect that most other parts would need replacing well before the recoil spring.
The only part I've needed to replace was a cocking handle which sheared off at the midpoint. It wasn't hard to find a replacement and I have a couple of spares through a miscommunication with Stoegers.
The only complaint I have with the 391 is the crappy little choke tube removal tool supplied by Beretta for the Optima chokes. It sucks and doesn't seat the tubes firmly enough to prevent them from backing out under recoil. I bought one of these wrenches from Carlson in the U.S. and it's much better.
Once again IMHO
I would imagine that if the rest if the metal parts on the gun come from the factory coated in the anti-rust gooey grease crud, that the recoil spring and tube do too. At least every one I have pulled apart does. I absolutely pull my new one apart and clean it and clean the spring and lube her up with CLP. Don't forget that this recoil spring/follower is the piston that gets pushed backwards by your link when the bolt travels rearward. Proper cleaning and lubing goes a long way to make sure that the bolt travels properly and smoothly and completely to the rear and forward again. That's a pretty important function. This one little piston plays an important role in feeding, extraction, ejection and recoil reduction. I think it's worth 10 minutes of time to optimize it's ability.
You hear lots of complaints from people with new semi-autos with failure-feed, failure to eject, yet have never cleaned the factory gunk out of the mainspring. then they complain what a crappy gun they bought. I have not had a single failure out of the factory after a proper cleaning.
Carbon and grit does get in this tube. If it still has the factory anti-rust grease still in it, this will get tacky and sticky in no time.
BTW, on the end of the mainspring tube, I have seen 2 different variations:
1. a threaded cap that I a socket would NOT fit, but an open ended wrench would (Vice grips would tear the end up likely)
2. a retaining pin in the side of the tube that holds back the cap.
I think you might have the first one. I just used an adjustable wrench to take this off. (Caution: spring under tension. protective eye wear).
Go to the Beretta website or Brownells and look at the exploded view of the tube and spring. It's just a tube, a spring (with follower) and a cap. No big deal.
Depending on usage, I would imagine that this would only needed to be cleaned upon purchase from the factory, and once every couple of years if lubed properly. You will be amazed at what crap you pull out of this tube.
As well, it gives you a chance to lube and put some oil
DCLP) on the inside and outside of the tube so it doesn't rust. Especially if you are prone to getting moisture in the gun.
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I have read where people with 70's era Rem 1100 change the spring to make the bolt travel a little snappier, but that's about it. (30+ years later)
Replace NO, Clean YES!
brownig - beretta
Great little thread ,have been toying with the idea of a new 20 gauge beretta,for pheasant hunting,and you probably have answered all my questions.Have a browning gold hunter now for waterfowl has been great never missed a beat even after ditch diving. As for Remington 1100 return springs I have a 70 eras trap that has probably 30,000 plus through it and is running original gear except for 2 new extractors,[bushwacker loads]
Great little thread ,have been toying with the idea of a new 20 gauge beretta,for pheasant hunting,and you probably have answered all my questions.Have a browning gold hunter now for waterfowl has been great never missed a beat even after ditch diving. As for Remington 1100 return springs I have a 70 eras trap that has probably 30,000 plus through it and is running original gear except for 2 new extractors,[bushwacker loads]
