buffaloed by buffalo arms brass

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bjake

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I'm having trouble sizing their reformed 348 brass.I have some brass that came with the rifle that size down with no problem and I also got a couple of dominion brass that had been shot through another rifle and they size no problem.I'am using Lee dies and a RCBS shell holder the dies have been turned out and brought in a 1/4 turn at a time trying to size in stages I have put a 10 thou shim between the brass and the base of the shell holder and I have annealed the neck and shoulder none of these things have worked.The reformed brass measure between 7&10 thou bigger than my old brass from where the shoulder was pushed back to where the old neck ended on the 348 brass.
any ideas would be helpful
Bruce
 
Did you talk to Dave Gullo at Buff. Arms? Whatcha tryin' to make anyways? I'll bet it's the cheap Lee dies...without knowing exactly the problem!!!
 
What round is the brass for?

My guess is 43 Mauser, but it's an important piece of info.
 
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everyone makes boo boos. I would be surprised if buff arms wouldnt help you out. hell we'd even help you if we knew what you were doing
 
sorry guy's for not making myself clear i'm trying for 43 mauser I've been talking to the fellows at buffalo arms for the past two weeks without any success and they are trying but I haven't heard anything for awhile so I thought I might get an new idea from one of you guy's sorry for the confustion
 
I suspected 43 Mauser because I've been there. Despite an opportunity here to slag Lee, I can say it's not the dies. I've sized Jamison and Dominion with Lee dies without any of the issues I had with 43 Mauser brass reformed from 348 Win.

That brass is very thick and needs to be annealed, then when sizing, well lubed, and sized down in stages (5 or 6), but only until it will chamber. The 43 Mauser has a very long neck and very straight sides, so there is an immense amount of brass in contact and under pressure in the die while sizing. Why are you F/L sizing before first firing anyways?

Here are a few tips:

- use Springfield Trapdoor max loads (you'll still be well under the limits of the Mauser action);
- you can neck-size with any 30/06 base sized (243, 308, 30/06, etc.) sizing or seating die (you'll need to experiment). With that brass and those low-pressure loads, you'll go 10 or so uses before F/L sizing is required; and
- bore size will vary from ~0.446" for the M71/84 to ~0.454" for the M71. You'll be using cast bullets, and molds are available, as are bullets from various suppliers. I have a custom 0.448" sizer for my M71/84's, and my guns love a 500gr bullet ahead of H4198 for about 1500 fps.
 
thanks for the info Andy I'm full length sizing because the brass wouldn't fit in the chamber the way it arrived, the gun I'm loading for is a cape rifle so i need the brass to fit well as i said in my post I have no problem sizing the old brass I have and it falls into the chamber. I have tried annealing and sizing in stages with no luck and the only thing I can think of left to do is polish down the outside of the neck in the area that it's to big, which would be the area between where the old 348 neck ends and the shoulder
Bruce
 
I was always able to size my brass down - is it so tough that you're afraid you'll break your press? Even 1/4 turn at a time with frequent lubes and it won't go? I've sized a lot of brass and it has always given way (either squeezed or buckled) to the press.

Are you able to measure the brass thickness throughout the case such as with an RCBS Case Master? I sure wouldn't "polish" the neck down to size, but you might outside neck turn.

I can't say I fully understand what's happening, but lots of people use Buffalo Arms 43 Mauser brass and you're the first I've heard having these problems.
 
andy
I'm not having a problem running the brass through the die my problem is that the reformed brass isn't sizing down along the length of the neck, the measurement at the shoulder is 473 thou and at the case mouth is 469 thou. the Dominion brass measures 465 thou along it's length from the case mouth to it's shoulder I don't understand what's happening either but this is the first time I've worked with reformed brass
Bruce
 
Well if it goes full length into the die and still comes out wrong then you have a mismatch between your chamber and your die, either try another .43 die, or try Jameson or Bell brass from Buffalo arms.
 
It only does this with the Buffalo Arms brass and not the others?

Try sizing the neck with a 30/06 sized F/L die. I just tried it and it made the neck tapered from 0.465" at the shoulder to 0.455" at the mouth. That gets the base down to size, and if you then run the sizing ball through it, it'll open it up again.
 
Andy
I just went and gave it a try with the 30.06 die the brass went in about 3/8 in and came up hard so I put some power to it didn't do much to the neck but the shoulder dished in like I was pushing the neck into the base of the brass. I lube up the brass well before I started and it came out not to badly so lube wasn't the problem
Bruce
 
Andy said:
Are you able to measure the brass thickness throughout the case such as with an RCBS Case Master? I sure wouldn't "polish" the neck down to size, but you might outside neck turn.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hijack this thread, but just wondering if the Case Master would be a good item to have for general reloading? Not that I reform cases that much.
 
That must be very thick stiff brass in the neck.

As for the Case Master, it allows you to determine case thickness from the mouth to the web. Among other things, it can let you know when there are thin spots (or thick in this case) developing. It also can determine case runout.
 
Andy
I just pulled out my telescoping gauges and measured the inside of the brass that I hadn't played with yet the inside measurement on the neck is 430 and 467 on the outside and my dominion brass is 445 on the inside and 465 on the outside.I wonder if reaming out the inside might be the way to go? Does it make sense that the out side of the neck is being pushed in then the expander die is pushing it back out?
 
The neck brass is too thick and you're right, it is being sized down and then the inside opened up when the expander button is pulled back out, which makes it too large to chamber. There also might be some binding in the die due to too tight clearances during the sizing operation. Remove the decapping pin and size a case and see if it'll chamber.

Your only solution is neck reaming. Inside will remove any "doughnut" that might have formed at the neck/shoulder juncture, and outside reaming is the only way to make neck thickness uniform (as the expander button makes it uniform inside). If you do both, you have to do just enough inside to remove the doughnut and finish up with outside - if you remove too much, your die won't be able to size the neck down enough to provide enough neck tension.
 
andy
Thanks for all the help.I think at this point the best thing for me to do is put it all back in a bag and send it back to Buffalo Arms and hopefully they have some of the other brass in by now, that I wanted in the first place.Well if nothing it's been a learning experiance
thanks to everyone else for their ideas
Bruce
 
hi guys
Just an update on the Buffalo arms brass, just got off the phone with them.The fellow there had a brass in his hand and confirmed my measurements of .430 on the inside of the neck and .465 on the outside then he put me on hold and went out and loaded the round in the shop came back and told me that everything worked well and that they have never had a problem before and when I asked if they shaved any lead off the bullet he said the shop foreman commented it did seem a bit tight going in but no lead was shaved.Here's my problem I'm leaving to go hunting Aug 28 for a month and I really want to use this cape gun but I only have 12 brass that are still good does anyone know where I can get a hold of 43 mauser brass other than buffallo arms reformed stuff
Thanks Bruce
 
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