Building AR15 Upper - Bolt carrier, barrel, rail question

Elle

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Hi everyone,

New to the forum so please be nice. I am building an AR15 upper receiver and would like to know if there are compatibility issues with certain barrels, bolt carrier groups and rails. Would any Bolt Carrier Group for the AR15 be compatible with the rail/barrel as long as it fires the same caliber round? (sorry if my question doesnt make sense-- like i said i am new).

Another question i had was, Would a 11.5" barrel work with a 13" rail or should the barrel be longer than the rail? or the rail longer than the barrel. Do all brands of barrels work with all brands of rails? What about BCGs?

Thanks, i just want to make sure that the parts im buying will work :)
 
For BCGs, theoretically any brand AR15 part should function with other brand parts. However some brands have drastically different manufacturing tolerances. That is the +/- deviation allowed from the intended measurements. In some cases trying to fit two parts together can be a pain because one part measures whatever.0190 and you're trying to fit it inside a part that measures whatever.0050 inches.

For rails and barrels, some manufacturers have their own special components. I'm almost entirely certain Daniel Defense uses their own barrel nut, and Noveske does as well, and probably a bunch of other guys as well.

Here's the DD barrel nut.
IMG_0533%201028%20WEVO.jpg


Here is the Noveske barrel nut.
d1a1b8b5a626b6c685ea7571c0a4b0a5.jpg


You can see how they use different methods for attaching the rail, so in order to go from one style to the other you would have to remove the old nut and install the new one.

As for barrel/rail length, that depends on specific parts. With the traditional triangular A2 style front sight gas block it just plain will not fit inside a rail, which means to use it with a rail without modification the rail needs to have a length short enough to fit behind the gas block. However, more than one person has chopped down their FSGB in order to fit a longer rail. Many companies also make Low Profile gas blocks, which usually do not have an integrated front sight post, and are low enough to fit under a rail.

Here is an example A2 front sight gas block.
628449.jpg



Here is an example low profile gas block.
129129.jpg


You can see how the iconic triangular one is much taller than a low profile one, which limits where it can fit.


However, there are some exceptions, such as this Daniel Defense rail that allows the use of an A2 gas block with a longer rail length.
daniel-defense-inc-browse-rifles-m4-carbine1.jpg


In terms of function, there's really no reason why you can't have a rail the same length as your barrel, or even a bit longer to make it flush with the flash hider/brake or other muzzle device. You just might have to swap out some parts depending on exactly what you have. I've seen a few guns that had rails the same length as the barrel, for optimum placement of forward mounted flashlights. Otherwise your rifle barrel will cast a shadow due to the flashlight being mounted slightly further back.

An 11.5" barrel inside a 13" rail might actually end up being the same length depending on what muzzle device you have. There's no real reason not to do it. However, it would be a bit tricky to install because you might not be able to get at it with a wrench while the rail is installed.

An example might look like this, though it looks like this one has a 7" rail on it.
1.jpg



For short barrels, especially if you are building it yourself, a very important thing is to verify the necessary gas tube length, and to probably alter the buffer weight or spring strength.
Each barrel has a gas port drilled into it, and that's the spot where you fit the gas block, which means it needs a proper length gas tube. If the tube is too short the gas port will just be puffing gas out into the air rather than into the tube and back to the gas key on the bolt carrier, and if it's too long you can bend or damage the tube trying to get it to fit.

Gas systems come in several sizes, from shortest to longest: Pistol(~10"), Carbine(~16"), and Rifle(~20"). Each one has specific gas tube lengths, and generally each one has it's own preferred buffer weights and spring strengths.

If the buffer/spring are not properly matched to the gas system you can get unreliable cycling if the springs are too strong for the gas pressure or if the fouling has built up and increased friction, or increased wear because the springs are too weak to absorb the impact.

However that's not all the fault of the gas system, as the rifle gets dirty the parts start to experience increased friction. Some fancy guns have very tight tolerances which means that even a little fouling can really throw them off their game, and some cheap guns have loose tolerances which means they don't suffer as much due to fouling build up. It's the age old joke that a $500 Chinese fake M4 is more reliable than a $2000 custom rifle, due to the fact that the cheap one has loose tolerances and can last longer between cleanings without becomming unreliable. It's also part of the old myth that semi-auto guns are less reliable than manually operated ones like a trusty old lever action. That's because the gas system and the springs can only exert so much before they max out, whereas with a manually operated gun you can muscle through it.


Happy building, it's fun stuff.
 
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I am building an AR15 upper receiver and would like to know if there are compatibility issues with certain barrels, bolt carrier groups and rails. Would any Bolt Carrier Group for the AR15 be compatible with the rail/barrel as long as it fires the same caliber round? (sorry if my question doesnt make sense-- like i said i am new).

In general all AR parts should be compatible. So feel free to order whichever bits you want.


Another question i had was, Would a 11.5" barrel work with a 13" rail or should the barrel be longer than the rail? or the rail longer than the barrel.

This is NOT a good idea for a couple of reasons. Very high pressure gas explodes out of the muzzle and a rail that extends past the muzzle will put your hand over top of the area where this high pressure gas is expanding. Additionally it is way too easy to get your hand or a finger out in front of the muzzle which is an excellent way to shoot bits of you off. You DO NOT want the muzzle rebated inside the rail.


Do all brands of barrels work with all brands of rails? What about BCGs?

What does the BCG have to do with the rail? In short all brands will generally work together due to the modular nature of the rifle.
 
okay thanks for the replies guys. much appreciated.

I am now mostly concerned of how long a gas tube I will need if I order a certain barrel length. Right now, im thinking of a VLTOR MUR upper receiver, with a Daniel defense BCG, a 16" barrel and 15" gas tube. does that work?
 
okay thanks for the replies guys. much appreciated.

I am now mostly concerned of how long a gas tube I will need if I order a certain barrel length. Right now, im thinking of a VLTOR MUR upper receiver, with a Daniel defense BCG, a 16" barrel and 15" gas tube. does that work?
That gas tube length seems strange to me. Sounds like a rifle length one. I suppose you could get a barrel custom made, but it just seems like having the gas port 1" away from the muzzle is going to be kind of weird, if it even works at all. Suputin might know.

I'm just going to give Arms East a shameless plug here. This is what I got, minus the charging handle and BCG. I kept the gas tube. Then I ripped off the handguard and installed a 7" Noveske skinny rail and a ARMS#41-B-L folding front sight gas block.
http://www.armseast.com/store/right_hand_upper_halves/stag_arms_mod._0rh/
0rh.jpg

This has a 16" barrel. That handguard is 7" long. The gas block is approximately 8" away from the receiver.

The Stag upper there is $615 plus tax if you don't want the BCG or CH. For that price you get the upper receiever and all you have to do is drop in a BCG and CH of your choice.

Also, if you are going to be working on assembling an upper yourself, vice blocks are essential. You can either get blocks to fit over the receiver and hold it in the vice without crushing it, or blocks to hold the barrel. Don't put the naked receiver in a vice, they are kind of squishy and can bend if you're reefing on the barrel nut or somesuch.

Brownells has some videos up, and youtube has a bunch of great videos. I heartily recommend watching a series where someone goes through all the steps.

That said, I assembled most of my upper using a vice, a wrench, a screwdriver, and my fingers. There are special tools, such as for installing the front detent pin, but I did it with my finger in less than 10 seconds. Maybe I just fluked out or something. Some parts are easy, some parts are hard. I destroyed 2 armourer's wrenches, 1 buffer tube, 1 castle nut, and scratched up a Magpul ASAP.

This is what my AR looks like. I'm waiting for my KAC ambi mag release to show up, but I'm starting to think I'll need to go on an epic voyage to learn the meaning of friendship before it will come back.

The only parts I did not install, or alter, are the dust port cover and the forward assist. Everything else has been monkeyed with.

I spent at least ~$2536.98 not counting tax or shipping. Building an AR is not necessarily going to save you money, but it is a great experience. The temptation is that when buyin parts individually it's not such a big deal to spend $150, until you add it all up at the end and realize you could very likely have something brand name with a lot more resale value. All said and done I don't regret it, I have something that quite possibly no one else has in all of Canada and it makes me feel like a unique snowflake.
 
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ya I've been looking at stuff online. everyday im learning though. interesting that u went through a bunch of parts/tools before completing your build. the ppl on youtube make it look so easy. I will post something up when im done my build. and ya parts definitely do add up. i'll probably end up spending just as much if not more building my AR
 
It's easy if you do it right, but I ran into issues such as the teeth on my wrench being too long, so that when I was tightening the castle nut the teeth were gouging the threads. I didn't notice until it was too late, and by then I had to use a pipe wrench to get the nut back off because I didn't like the ASAP end cap. Plus I just had some bad luck, I don't think the one wrench was heat treated at all because it bent, and the other one might have had too much heat treating. Plus the ASAP is designed weird so you have to install it with the wrench all tilted and diagonal.

Also, there are some shops/gunsmiths that could take your loose box of parts and assemble them.
 
Aren't most 16" barrels mid-length or carbine length? 15" gas tube is rifle length if you're hitting the 20" barrels.

General rule of thumb for gas systems from what I can remember:

Pistol - >10"
Carbine - 10"-16"
Mid-length - 14"-20"
Rifle - 20"+

I'm in the process of building my first AR as well but the upper will be a 300AAC BLK. :)
 
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