Building the cheapest "good" AR15

Claven2

Claven2

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So I'm building another Ar because it's fun. This time the goal is to build an M4 type with a free float quad rail using all North American made parts that is still nice quality but as inexpensively as I can. I'm also going to use all new parts - no used parts apart from a few small items in my parts bin which are new, but not newly bought. I'm also using a milspec tube and stock to keep it as M4-ish as possible.

Prices shown are before any tax or shipping - just raw retail costs. The parts from Brownells are in US dollars, the C-dollar was at $1.03:1.00 CAN:US exchange.

I started with the Aero Precision upper/lower combo pack from Armseast. These receivers get good reviews down south and in person they do not disappoint. Fit was nice, finish too. In general, FAR superior to Norinco. Not as tight as, say, a DLASK (those are TIGHT fitting - almost too much so), but definitely tighter than your average military C8. The upper is M4 feedramp type. $260.

I also went with a full-auto style complete bolt carrier group from Armseast as they were on sale for $175 and are as close to milspec as you can get. Great price too - $25 cheaper than the LMT units at Questar and IMHO just as nice.

The YHM diamond carbine length FF rail was from Fabsports. $149.

I'm still waiting for a few odds and sods to show up from Brownells before it's finished and I'll update once those come in.

The "free" parts from my bin were as follows:
-Hammer (Taken right out of a new Armalite that got a NM trigger upgrade)
-Disconnector (Also from the Armalite)
-Disconnector spring (Also from the Armalite)
-Hammer and trigger pins (Also from the Armalite)
-Hammer and trigger springs (Also from the Armalite)
-Mag catch (DPMS, left over from an ambi build)
-Buffer and spring (Tapco from a stock that didn't go on an AR)

The barrel has the below noted parts, but I removed them before taking the photo.
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This is as far as I got as I'm on hold bending arrival of the ambi selector and the FF rail front cap from Brownells.
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The barrel is an AP4 "M4 type" DPMS barrel from ATRS. It's 1:9, chrome lined, M4 ramps and came with a F fixed front sight with bayo lug, but no swivel or front sight bits. It came with a barrel nut and front handguard cap we are not re-using. The barrel is FAR nicer than I expected. Apart from not being 1:7 and that it's not parked under the front sight, it's REALLY close to milspec. $330 (really nice price for a chrome-lined M4 profile barrel made in the USA)

More cost breakdown details to follow. I think you guys will be very surprised how inexpensive this built will turn out for what it will have by way of nice parts ;)
 
Additional pricing info:

Since I already had a few pieces already found in an LPK (actually the most important bits, which were all Armalite and pretty decent quality), I only ordered the stuff I was missing from Brownells as follows. I selected the least expensive USA-made parts I could find that were still from a reputable maker. Where maker didn't matter, I sometimes chose Brownells' house brand (which is probably re-badged DPMS or Hi-standard depending on the part).

- DPMS trigger 13.47
- DPMS Selector Detent 1.23
- 2x Brownells detent springs 1.62
- DPMS selector spring 0.89
- DPMS buffer retainer spring 0.62
- Hi-Standard milspec receiver extension tube 43.61 (to do this one over, I would get it from Armseast as their stag tubes are nice and cheap)
- Brownells buffer retainer 1.29
- Hi-Standard extension lock nut 3.94
- Brownells receiver plate 4.07
- DPMS front pivot pin 3.87
- DPMS Bolt catch 5.00
- DPMS bolt catch buffer 0.92
- Hi-standard bolt catch spring 0.60
- Hi-standard bolt catch roll pin 0.67
- DPMS rear take down pin 3.87
- 2X DPMS take down detents 2.22
- DPMS Mag catch button 1.94
- DPMS mag catch spring 0.50
- Magpul MOE grip (comes with mounting hardware) 14.99
Total from this order - 105.32 (The MOE grip doesn't count against State Regulated $100 limit)

Next, the upper parts:

- DPMS fwd assist button assembly (includes spring and roll pin) 12.80
- Hi-standard port cover pin c-clip 1.20
- DPMS port cover pin 1.18
- DPMS charging handle latch 3.28
- DPMS charging handle roll pin 0.92
- DPMS charging handle latch spring 1.03
- DPMS stripped charging handle 15.33
- Hi-standard gas tube 12.75
- Colt ejection port cover (none of the inexpensive brand covers were in stock when I ordered so I had to go with Conneticut Horsey ;) ) 9.30
- Hi-Standard ejection port cover spring 1.59
- Hi-standard front sight kit (includes swivel, rivet, detent, spring, sight and gas tube roll pin. I had a Colt front sight post already, so the spare post will go in my parts bin) 9.60
- Magpul RVG MOE rail grip 20.58

Total for this order = 90.18

Total from this post = 195.50
Total from first post - 584.00

Total to date = 779.50.

All that is missing to make this a working firearm is the buttstock, ambi selector, trigger guard, rear sight and flash hider.

I have most of this stuff already, but they aren't the parts I want to use. On Monday I expect delivery of the ambi selector, Magpul stock, magpul TG and a YHM Phantom 5C2 so I won't have to use the standard TG, standard 6-pos stock, A2 hider and non-ambi selector in my parts bin. I'm also waiting (as mentioned above) on a YHM end cap and plug screws to arrive to give the FF rail a cleaner look.

More to follow, but at this point, if I wanted to go shooting, I could put on the parts I already have here and for $79 more than the price of a stock Norinco, I'd have a free-floated north american made AR assembled from all new parts with upper and lower receiver from the same maker - food for thought.
 
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PS: As an added dig - If I had wanted to install a $20 plastic hanguard, I could be only $650 into this USA-made AR.

Kinda makes you wonder why the Chinese ones with their less than ideal fit and finish and not always interchangeable parts made with slave labour are so expensive, doesn't it???

EDIT: I feel like a math dufus. I forgot the barrel costs in the calcs. It's actually 1109.50, or $980.50 minus the FF rail.

Still, not bad to be under $1000 and still cheap enough to ensure I would not buy a Norc. The fit and finish on USA parts has to be seen next to a Norc to be truely appreciated. The Norincos have tool marks everywhere, sloppy fit compared to good parts, etc. Yes, they work, but it's really not much more money at all (less than $300) to "upgrade" to a nice rifle.

If the Norinco were under $600, it would be a no-brainer, but at $700 I still feel it makes no sense.
 
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Assembly? In China? In Canada or the States, assembly costs could be significant in the price, but Chinese workers get paid a few dollars a day and can probably knock together a dozen rifles per day per man, if not more, with practise and in series production.

And before anyone talks about dealers needing to make a buck and charging fair markups, etc. Please bear in mind I bought all these parts at retail in either Canada or the US - the markups are INCLUDED in the sub-$1000 north american AR.
 
The tools cost $0 because I have had enough tools for many years ;)

Apart from a stock wrench, strap wrench, a small ballpeen, aluminum "soft jaws" for your bench vise and some punches from Princess Auto - anyone can assemble an AR15. If you use a delta ring, you might have to buy an $8 barrel nut tool from Brownells. I have a few more tools than that, but have assembled MANY AR's with just the tools listed - no problem.
 
Claven2 said:
The tools cost $0 because I have had enough tools for many years ;)

Apart from a stock wrench, strap wrench, a small ballpeen, aluminum "soft jaws" for your bench vise and some punches from Princess Auto - anyone can assemble an AR15. If you use a delta ring, you might have to buy an $8 barrel nut tool from Brownells. I have a few more tools than that, but have assembled MANY AR's with just the tools listed - no problem.
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So your tool cost is not zero,,,,,you did and you have purchased tools, so you did and you will have to spend money on that as well and add it into your total build cost...

I am sure all of the items you have had a cost at some point in time...bench vise, punches, ballpeen hammer, and so on....

If you were like my friend who really has no tools, he use's the heel of his shoe to drive in a nail to hang a picture, then I would agree you spent zero on tools......

Either way you have a nice build going on and it looks good.....

hope you get it completed soon....
 
I hear what you guys are saying, and in fairness, I own a small machine shop so I can make any tool I might need. That being said though, VERY FEW guys guys do not have at least some basic tools already.

AR15's are the lego of the gun world. You don't really ever need a gunsmith to do work on one unless you are indexing barrel extensions or something.

Also, you can buy a basic 16" Stag M4-type rifle from Armseast for about $1485 which IMHO is the smokin'-est eal going for an assembled AR that there ever was. If they came with 14.5" barrels and true 5.56 chambers (as opposed to .223 Wylde) it would be even better - but that's minor, really. If you aren;t into assembling an AR and want to improve on what Norinco has to offer, go that route for sure. Or if you don't mind not having a threaded muzzle, the S&W M&P for around $1399 from a few dealers is also an attractive choice.

What I'm aiming to show is that for around $1000, if you want to assemble it, you can buy a pretty nice AR. I didn't shop around or buy any used parts, so it can be done even more cheaply if you're savvy. The point behind going all new is to document a build ANYONE can duplicate. For about $150 more, you can have a nice AR with a free floated quad rail.

One thing I have to point out in the interest of transparency though is that the DPMS AP4 barrels and uppers use slightly shallower M4 cuts than milspec, so to mate the DPMS barrel to the Aero Precision, you have to polish the feed ramps at the very tip of the extension down about 3 or 4 thou. Not the whole length of the ramps, just at the tips. It's so minor I did it with a felt polishing wheel on a dremel and some semi-coarse green "rouge", but it is there and you will want to do this if you want the utmost reliable feeding. DO NOT do this with the upper installed or you will ruin the anodizing. Just note by eyeball where you need to remove material, remove the barrel, polish, re-install to check progress, repeat. I believe it's a common artifact of mix and matching the make of upper receiver and barrel. And before anyone asks, yes, the chrome lined DPMS SBR barrels DO have M4 feed ramp, not rifle ramps. probably 80% of the barrels DPMS sells have rifle extensions, but their SBR barrels that we can somehow buy at ATRS (???) and which are unavailable in the USA without a $250 (roughly?) tax stamp, DO have M4 feed ramps. If anyone needs to see what I am talking about due to poor explanations, let me know and I'll take pics of the ramps later.
 
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Claven2 said:
I hear what you guys are saying, and in fairness, I own a small machine shop so I can make any tool I might need.
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LOL.....:)

I don't own many tools either, but in my brothers machine shop, I have access to all the tools I need, including CNC equipment, I don't even need to buy a lower, we could machine our own....

would it be fair to say my tool cost is zero, and the lower only cost me 80 bucks in material....but the 250 thousand CNC well it's not mine.....so it don't cost me nothing but the 80 bucks...

Just fooling with ya a bit, don't take my above in a negative way, but no matter how we look at it, tools do cost.....

Other than for my friend, he still to this day does not have a single tool.....still using the heel of his shoe as a hammer....

Don't take this post the wrong way, it's sometimes hard to get humor across the internet.....my comments are in good fun....


By the way, I was really cheap, lazy, and just wanted a darn AR, so I purchased a Norc.......hehehehehe
 
hbean said:
Do you have a running total on all shipping and handling charges? :)
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I can provide that if anyone is interested. Buying an assembled rifle will save you a bit on shipping, but the taxes work out to be about the same. Less if you live in a province without HST.

Ah what the hell, here goes:

I had to make three Brownells orders, $20 shipping each. Average customs bill (including taxes) was $16 per parcel, so $108 total in shipping and customs for stuff from the USA, $15 shipping from Armseast and $15 from ATRS = total of $138.

I figure a complete rifle from Armseast would be about $30-35, so you are likely about $100 further behind by buying a bunch of USA parts.

I'm $118.82 into Canadian taxes at Armseast and ATRS, so $256.32 for all taxes and shipping, in total.

HST (13%) on a $1485 rifle is $193.05 plus the $30 in shipping = 223.05. So about $33.27 difference from going the route I went.

However, I will be into this rifle for about $1200 using magpul goodies, some ambi controls, free float, chrome lined 14.5" with 5.56 chamber plus $256.32 = about $1450 after all shipping, taxes, duty, etc. vs. the cheapest decent M4 type in Canada costing about $1485 plus $223.05 = about $1700 for a nice factory stag, but with no magpul anything, no free float rail, 16" USA-friendly barrel and a non-5.56 chamber. After the value of my labour, it looks less attractive, but I don't charge myself for my labour - lol.

EDIT: Some of the math here was wrong when I went through it again - errors have been corrected (22 Apr 2011).
 
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Ftaview said:
By the way, I was really cheap, lazy, and just wanted a darn AR, so I purchased a Norc.......hehehehehe
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I don't want anyone to believe I think the Norinco is a bad rifle. It is very good for what it is. I just think that for what you get, it should be $100-200 cheaper.

The cost of a north-american made AR is essentially due to the better fit and finish, the tolerances that are maintained, and the guaranteed parts interchangeability. Anyone who's ever done manufacturing processes knows this is what truly drives up cost.

I also just noticed, if you delete the Troy flip-up sight from the cheapest Stag AR, 16" bbl, .223 Wylde, the price drops to $1360. Wow. I'm surprised they ever stay in stock.
 
Claven2 said:
I don't want anyone to believe I think the Norinco is a bad rifle. It is very good for what it is. I just think that for what you get, it should be $100-200 cheaper.
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Chances are it is that much cheaper, you have to remember Chinese goods are subject to import duty as well, where as US parts are duty free due to NAFTA. Just recently I bought something from the States that was just under $300, it turns out the country of origin was China, I ended up paying Revenue Canada $60 duty on it.
 
LOL,,,,,I am not sure if the Norcs could get any cheaper....they are about 200 bucks less than when I purchased mine, I knew I should have waited a couple more months

Your right for what it is, it's a great rifle, and yes there are better, I just did not want to put that much cash into something I can only use at the range.....mind you my pistols don't see anything other than a range either, but I spent way more on them, than what my AR cost.....

Still what your doing is great, you learn, you do, and you take pride in something you got to put together, and if all works,,,,well that is just a bonus.....

hope to see pics of the finished product...
 
Ftaview said:
hope to see pics of the finished product...
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Me too :) The only reason it isn't together is that if I finish assembly, I'll have to pull the front sight base off again when the FF tube end cap arrives and I'd have to pull the lower internals again to swap selectors. Everything else is in the basement in a box ready to go.
 
Thanks Claven2.. i was just recently looking for a good AR-15 Build thread, and here you are.... thank you for all the info.
 
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