Bull Barrel Advantages
- Thread starter delmer
- Start date
Better harmonics with a heavy barrel... better accuracy when cooking... H&R have crappy triggers... ultra cheap in every way Delmer. Buy a good used bolt on the exchange forum if you are looking for an accurate/inexpensive rifle.
Yeah the H&R Ultra varmint heavy barrels are listed at 7-8 pounds but are actually closer to 9 without a scope... if your gonna carry 10 1/2 pounds all day it might as well be a good rifle. http://www.tcarms.com/INDEX.htm
H&R's are like Lee equipment - you get more than you pay for, but since you're only paying $200, that's not necessarily saying much. You might be getting $300 worth of gun for $200, but a $300 gun still aint much of a gun.
H&R has done some major re-work on their triggers, and are much better than they used to be. The actions aren't particularly stong, so they shoot a lot better with slightly tamer loads. The bore's used to be hit-and-miss, but quality has greatly improved under Marlin's ownership. Group-wise they do fine, most are capable of ~MOA or slightly sub-MOA accuracy with handloads - good enough for thier intended purpose, but not exactly target material.
Still, they are a lot of fun, and overall I'm an H&R fan but it's important to keep your expectations realistic.
H&R has done some major re-work on their triggers, and are much better than they used to be. The actions aren't particularly stong, so they shoot a lot better with slightly tamer loads. The bore's used to be hit-and-miss, but quality has greatly improved under Marlin's ownership. Group-wise they do fine, most are capable of ~MOA or slightly sub-MOA accuracy with handloads - good enough for thier intended purpose, but not exactly target material.
Still, they are a lot of fun, and overall I'm an H&R fan but it's important to keep your expectations realistic.
Super Cub and Why Not you both seem to be under the mistaken impression that a heavy barrel takes longer to cool and that a hot heavy barrel is less accurate, this is simply not the case!
The thermal conductivity through the steel is much higher than at the steel air interface. The cooling is proportional to the surface area of the barrel which increases linearly with diameter. Plus the thermal inertia of the metal slows the rate of change, which may reduce the shot to shot error. Fluting gives even more area, but its advantages may be overshadowed by the stresses introduced by the machining processes to produce the fluting. A hotter barrel isn't necessarily less accurate.
The thermal conductivity through the steel is much higher than at the steel air interface. The cooling is proportional to the surface area of the barrel which increases linearly with diameter. Plus the thermal inertia of the metal slows the rate of change, which may reduce the shot to shot error. Fluting gives even more area, but its advantages may be overshadowed by the stresses introduced by the machining processes to produce the fluting. A hotter barrel isn't necessarily less accurate.
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Now, BR, your theory on the cooling sounds good, but you are simply flat wrong on this one! I have shot plenty of HB rifles, and they definitely take longer to cool once hot.
Time one and see.
Never said they weren't accurate when hot.
Time one and see.
Never said they weren't accurate when hot.
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Make mine fluted then
Why not? said:Now, BR, your theory on the cooling sounds good, but you are simply flat wrong on this one! I have shot plenty of HB rifles, and they definitely take longer to cool once hot.
Time one and see.
Never said they weren't accurate when hot.
I have news for you Ted... that is not a theory... that is science, and it is a fact. Your idea is the speculative one...Bench rest and competetive shooters know this and so does the military... the larger the surface area the quicker the barrel cools.
i have t oagree with red on this issue having a rather intimate relationship with metal and heat. the dynamics of heat transfer lean more on the lines of larger barrel surface faster cool down.BIGREDD said:I have news for you Ted... that is not a theory... that is science, and it is a fact. Your idea is the speculative one...Bench rest and competetive shooters know this and so does the military... the larger the surface area the quicker the barrel cools.
edit to add: theres nothing wrong with carrying a 10lb unloaded rifle into the bush for hunting
It is a common misconception to believe that mass is the determining factor with regard to heat retention. This is not so with steel rifle barrels, surface area has far more effect.
Fluting can also increase the surface area to promote cooling but there are other issues with fluting that may or may not affect barrel harmonics.
Fluting can also increase the surface area to promote cooling but there are other issues with fluting that may or may not affect barrel harmonics.
BIGREDD said:
Sorry Redd, I'm not buying this one.
I see piping all the time that has been stress releived. It's an everyday part of the business I'm in.
Simply put ....... Big pipe takes longer to heat/cool than small pipe. PERIOD!!
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Best way to cool a C-6 Barrel (MAG-58) is drop it in the snow after a couple quick 220 round cans of ammo run through it. its ready to go again in under a minute To the scrap metal bin ,LOL
its ready to go again in under a minute To the scrap metal bin ,LOL I'll agree to disagree on this one guys. speaking very roughly yes more surface area means faster cooling by means of convection and radiation but the HB does have more heat to remove (assuming two barrels at the same temp). so which one cools faster... well that depends on if the heavy barrels heat transfer coefficient increased at a rate larger than the increased mass of the barrel. Double the mass you've got to double the heat transfer rate in order to keep the same temp as the smaller barrel while cooling. That is making the assumption that the the conduction coeiffecient of the steal is high enough that the barrel is isothermal everywhere.
in reality you need to look at the flow regieme over the barrel to see if it is turbulent or not in order to get a actual figure on heat transfer by convection (much much higher than radiation which will be insignificent). A higher air flow over the barrel will increase the heat transfer rate of both barrrels with the samaller barrel seeing an initial higher increase. This has to do with the reynold's number being affected by the diameter, beign higher for the samller diameter. this is directly effects the nuselt (SP?) number for the calculation of heat transfer. I can't remember how area comes into efect, if it is sqared or so forth.... so the smaller barrel will have a higher reynold's number, and see's turbulent transition first, but than area also changes the nuselt number. I'm going to have to get my heat transfer book out on this one but the actual answer is much more involved than straight surface area and will be effected by environmental conditions.
I'll also have to take a look at natural convection with no cross flow..... I'll take a quick read when I get back to work on monday!
in reality you need to look at the flow regieme over the barrel to see if it is turbulent or not in order to get a actual figure on heat transfer by convection (much much higher than radiation which will be insignificent). A higher air flow over the barrel will increase the heat transfer rate of both barrrels with the samaller barrel seeing an initial higher increase. This has to do with the reynold's number being affected by the diameter, beign higher for the samller diameter. this is directly effects the nuselt (SP?) number for the calculation of heat transfer. I can't remember how area comes into efect, if it is sqared or so forth.... so the smaller barrel will have a higher reynold's number, and see's turbulent transition first, but than area also changes the nuselt number. I'm going to have to get my heat transfer book out on this one but the actual answer is much more involved than straight surface area and will be effected by environmental conditions.
I'll also have to take a look at natural convection with no cross flow..... I'll take a quick read when I get back to work on monday!
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Larger diameter barrels will radiate more heat outwards longer, this can cause mirage and #### up your shot, LOL
and #### up your shot, LOL 
