Is it really worth the extra work to run your bullets through a bullet pointing Die? I took a long range shooting coarse years ago put on by the ORA, one class was on reloading. Some of the guest speakers were accomplished "F-class" shooters and mentioned Meplant trimming with bullet pointing. So, with advances in bullet making quality, Is it still worth the trouble?
Bullet Pointing
- Thread starter Woodknot
- Start date
Depends what you are trying to do - trim/point, most shooters look at (marginally) improving the BC. I look at it as another opportunity to to a quality check, as you can find flaws or defects in bullets when pointing. Defects like cracked meplats, short cores (air bubbles), or major difference in olgives. Mind you, the QA/QC at Berger has improved to the point that I don't find the odd defective like I used to. I don't believe that other manufacturers have stepped up their game as much (as reflected in pricing), so there should be some value in trim/point for other brands if you're considering QA/QC.
Depends on your use case really. Are you a F Class or similar guy shooting at national levels where one point could be the difference between 1st etc.
I sort my Berger hybrids by OAL for my 308 FTR Rifle. I find this has had a improvement on target at 1000 yards.
I sort my Berger hybrids by OAL for my 308 FTR Rifle. I find this has had a improvement on target at 1000 yards.
Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
You will increase the BC somewhat by pointing, depending on the diameter of the meplat . However, you will make the bullets more consistent to each other (reducing BC variance). Brian Litz (bullet/rocket scientist) does not recommend trimming. BTW, do not point the bullets so that the meplat is completely closed.
Many of the newer Bergers are pre-pointed. Then there are Sierra TMK with polymer tips and the Hornady A-Tip. So no, unless one has a favourite bullet and really, really wants it to be more uniform. Trimming / pointing, lots of time and more tooling to buy.
As Terry Perkins points out, Litz does not recommend this. He's usually right and in his highly-recommended books describes 'why' in detail, along with statisically valid tests.
It's less about what they don't know and more about what isn't commercially feasible for them to do. Berger, with its higher price point, is now pointing some of their bullets. Sierra and Hornady have solved it with tips.
Same reason we sort cases by weight. The manufacturers could do this, discard the outliers and sell the rest - but the price would be higher and they've judge it not worthwhile.
No.
Which should tell us everything we need to know about this topic. Sadly it won't.
In the general case I agree. I don't know if he's always right, but he's never wrong. His books are the best investment a precision target shooter can make.
Whether you realize this or not, it displays a level of arrogance that is .......
You think you know more about the specific design of the bullet and the performance of the bullet and you know more about QC than the manufacturer and that you can do a better job manually, by hand, on individual bullets than the manufacturer does?
Staggering arrogance.EXACTLY THIS!
You think it is not commercially feasible for the manufacturers to run their bullets through one more die or process?
Lets consider the logic here.
The idea that some small boutique company can produce a widget that solves all the problems with a mass produced product .... that the manufacturer of that mass produced product somehow just can't manage to incorporate into their process is ....... naive at best and pretty stupid at worst. This is not much different than the old, carburetor that produces 100 mpg conspiracy. IF such were true, the car or in our case bullet manufacturers would be idiotic not to incorporate that into their product.
A $50 die that greatly improves the ballistic performance of a bullet would be nothing for the bullet manufacturers to incorporate into their process. That fact they don't, should tell us everything we need to know about that die or tool. Over the course of a group, such a process doesn't make any difference. If it did, the bullet makers would all use it .... why on earth wouldn't they?
People believe these kinds of things work, because they want them to work. If they spent money on something that didn't work then that would prove they had stupidly spent money and people don't like to admit they were stupid ... which is how we get confirmation bias.
It blindingly obviously is not, except for Berger (which tips some). Prices on 168gr 308s run from $0.75 to $1.30, give or take, with the level of commercially feasible care for bullet manufacturing varying accordingly at each price point. As per my previous example for brass.
Me, I buy mine either pre-pointed from Berger or with tips like TMKs and A-Tips. I agree with Litz that doing it myself is not time well spent.
Your statement is tendentious, absolutist as part of that, and wrong. Good day.
Years ago, someone lent me a runout gauge. I spent lots of time sorting a pile of ammo into different groups based on the bullet runout. Then I went to the range and shot groups with all those carefully sorted piles of ammo.
At the end of the day I had some nice groups on paper and a pile of the ammo with the absolute worst runout. I could have just pulled those bullets but I was sitting at the bench and decided it would just be easier to shoot that ammo. Lo and behold, the worst of the worst ammo with the largest amount of runout .... shot just as well as the nicely sorted batch with the least runout.
I handed that stupid gauge back to my friend and have never measured my ammo runout since.
In my experience, atmospheric conditions and we, the shooter, have 100x more influence on where a bbullet hits, that the teeny and endless minutiae of the ammo itself. If you want better groups, you will be better served by range time than reloading time.
At the end of the day I had some nice groups on paper and a pile of the ammo with the absolute worst runout. I could have just pulled those bullets but I was sitting at the bench and decided it would just be easier to shoot that ammo. Lo and behold, the worst of the worst ammo with the largest amount of runout .... shot just as well as the nicely sorted batch with the least runout.
I handed that stupid gauge back to my friend and have never measured my ammo runout since.
In my experience, atmospheric conditions and we, the shooter, have 100x more influence on where a bbullet hits, that the teeny and endless minutiae of the ammo itself. If you want better groups, you will be better served by range time than reloading time.
As suggested by Litz.
It Is absolutely worth it to point your bullets if youre shooting at the level where a 2%-8% BC Consistentcy increase will help you win matches.
If the Person who designed the special yellow box is saying it. Ill believe it.
Granted. Im not at that level yet. So Ill stick with "sorting" bullets by OAL for FTR.
If the Person who designed the special yellow box is saying it. Ill believe it.
Granted. Im not at that level yet. So Ill stick with "sorting" bullets by OAL for FTR.
Yessir. Heck I think he even helped design the Widden Pointing die.As suggested by Litz.
