Bullet selection for 308(m14) and pushing out

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GunNewb

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I just picked up a ton of the 150 gr hornady FMJBT. Hoping to go past 100 yards this winter. My goal is to get some steel and push out to 300, 500, and eventually even 800. (shoot for some groups and see what I can get- mostly shooting of steel 12"x12" in field positions to develop a deadly accurate hunting shot)

For those longer ranges like 500-600 Ill prolly have to start throwing the more expensive 168gr sierra match kings but out to 300-500 will I be well served by the 150 gr hornady?

Anyone else have any bright ideas? The bullet MUST be economical as I am planning to get a good bit of practice in to try and make myself suck a bit less.

I can also get the 150gr BTSP BULLET BoatTailSP 100/Bx for $29.00 vs $23.00 for the 150 gr FMJBT. Is it worth the $$?



Im loading for a bedded + slightly accurized norinco m14, IMR 4064
 
You won't get the consistency you want with those bullets. Garbage in garbage out is what most precision guys go by. 155 grain amax will give you better performance without hurting the wallet too bad. It also does well going through the transonic region of flight so even with a low mv you're fine as long as you can read the winds until you run out of elevation. As for the norinco... mystic has a little write up on tuning them up to get the best out of em, nice little read. You'll definately catch some flack for it but it'd be a fun gun to plink some gongs with. Find a load with an easy metering powder and run em through a progressive press with good dies and you're set for some fun plinking.
 
you should always choose the "1" bullet you will always use for "that" rifle.
for 308, there are so many options from Berger, hornady, berger, sierra and so on. 150 or 168, they will both work great to 1000 yards if the load data is correct for your rifle and just have fun with it.

I would ask is.. will you be using this rifle as a hunting rifle or target? and choose a right bullet for what you are doing and keep shooting!
Varget tends to be the most known powder for 308 and many of the many people will use 44- 44.5grains.

Hope you have fun with the new toy!
 
Best way to shrink your M1A groups is to swap out some basic parts like the spring guide and piston. Also, getting an adjustable gas plug, heavy spring, and maybe a grooved piston would be advisable for the hotter loads.

After that, you should learn how to reload for a precision semi if you haven't done the research already. Mystic had a good article on LRH but it looks like it's gone :(. Basically, Body only resize, then Neck Only resize. Don't use the FL dies (ruins concentrically).

IMR 4064 is a good burn rate for the heavier bullets but H4064 or Varget are supposed to be more temperature stable. Food for thought.



For the bullets, I plan on using the Berger 185 Boat Tail. They are shorter in OAL than the 185 hybrids (Juggernaut) and the VLD due to the tangent ogive. They are also less aerodynamic but the shorter OAL will mean you have more case capacity which mean less of a pressure spike for given load. For these heavy bullets, you'll want some of the aforementioned gas system modifications to avoid damaging your op rod, bolt, and/or receiver.


Hope that helps! I'm just waiting to get my M1A built and then it'll be off to the largest range I can find!

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GunNewb said:
I just picked up a ton of the 150 gr hornady FMJBT. Hoping to go past 100 yards this winter. My goal is to get some steel and push out to 300, 500, and eventually even 800. (shoot for some groups and see what I can get- mostly shooting of steel 12"x12" in field positions to develop a deadly accurate hunting shot)

For those longer ranges like 500-600 Ill prolly have to start throwing the more expensive 168gr sierra match kings but out to 300-500 will I be well served by the 150 gr hornady?

Anyone else have any bright ideas? The bullet MUST be economical as I am planning to get a good bit of practice in to try and make myself suck a bit less.

I can also get the 150gr BTSP BULLET BoatTailSP 100/Bx for $29.00 vs $23.00 for the 150 gr FMJBT. Is it worth the $$?



Im loading for a bedded + slightly accurized norinco m14, IMR 4064
Click to expand...

I shoot the Hornady fmj bullets a lot. I shoot them in a DPMS build, a couple of accurized M-14's and a Remington LE 700 that I picked from ATRS. While I agree with datartar that if you want really tight precision groups they wouldn't be the first choice. However out to 400 m they are an excellent, inexpensive practice round. My DPMS will consistently group 4-5 inches at 400 m with these bullets. I have a 12 inch ARC 500 plate that I hammer on all day long with the Hornadys. I have shot at 500 m and connected consistently with the Rem LE bolt action. I use 748 but 4064 is a good choice especially at longer distances. I think you could get in a lot of inexpensive practice out to 400. This should leave you some extra cash for making some loads up with AMax or Berger Full Bore bullets when you want to wring the most out of that calibre at long range. Just my $.02 worth.
 
That is exactly the type of gun those bullets were designed for. They fit in the mag and they are certainly better than the gun. I also used Sierra 2155 bullets because they handed them out at every Sierra match I ever shot at and I could get them to fit the magazines.

The gun will run out of performance long before those bullets will, so just buy and enjoy
 
Awesome- thats something to aspire to. Sounds reassuring!



Varget seems super popular with 308. Ill consider it more seriously when Im done my 2 lbs of imr 4064 for sure. Wonder how it cycles as the 4064 and h4895 seem to be the go to recommendations for the m14
 
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nice setup! That is how I should have done mine. Ive been ordering crap off brownells, treeline etc... for the past 3 months as I learn about the gun. Shipping has been stupid. Ahh well the next m14 I build will be alot cheaper. :)

I cant afford to shoot those 180gr regularly anyways but I wouldnt mind a unitized NM gas system and a decent piston hole that isnt totally offset by the dedicated slave workers at norinco. prolly pick up an adjustable gas system while Im there...
 
How accurately are you and your rifle shooting those 150 FMJBTs?

It is worthwhile using ammo good enough such that it is not the "weak link" in the overall system (the overall system being the shooter, plus the firing style/position, plus the accuracy of the rifle, plus the accuracy of the ammo).

If you were shooting an accurized .308 bolt gun off of a rest, the 150FMJBTs would almost certainly be standing in your way (the 150 FMJBTs are probably capable of 2-3MOA accuracy at distances of 100-800 yards; an accurate bolt gun fired in that manner can deliver well under 1 MOA). But with a service rifle, shot in typical service rifle manner (standing, kneeling, prone-sorta-supported) at service rifle targets (relatively generously size bullseyes), a 2-3MOA overall ammo/gun combination is OK.

You're not going to be able to shoot 1 MOA in your M14 with those bullets. But, unless and until you get your M14 shooting 1MOA, shooting those bullets is probably a perfectly reasonable thing to do. (note - it is possible to get an M14 to shoot an honest 1 MOA or better, but there's a heckuva lot more to actually accomplishing this than is generally acknowledged on the InterTubes)
 
My advice.........

Do not neck size for the M14.........use FL dies..........you want to make sure that round chambers and the lugs will fully lock..........with neck sized cases, case fit is extremely tight and any little grit or moisture can cause the round not to fully chamber and the bolt lugs not to fully lock..........If the bolt lugs do not fully lock this can end up being really bad...........I have shot/tuned/built M14 type rifles for over 20 years so you can take my advice for what it's worth ;)

In general do not shoot bullets over 168 grains........... heavy bullets are very hard on the gas system/op rod, and if the action is bedded, can be hard on the bedding..............If you must shoot heavier bullets, you can look into a adjustable gas plug (Schuster Manufacturing)............This plug lets you adjust the gas system to handle heavier bullets..........
 
^^ that's good advice. I was running the 155 Amax and 44 grains of 748 powder in my m14 for a while with good success. I had it shooting 2" +- groups at 100. Iv since decided to keep my m14 for 400 and under work and picked up a Remington 700 for long distance work.
 
Hornady 150 FMJ

Although talk of 150 gr FMJ may not belong in precision rifle the Hornady bullet works quite well in my 14. The 150 BTSP also shoots well. I've tried most of the 150, 168 match bullets even 175 SMK. They don't shoot any better than the Hornady 150. My biggest disappointment was the 168 gr Federal GMM which also didn't improve accuracy much at all.
My rifle is not stock and has "0" headspace.
The bullets which shoot most accurately have an ogive which engages the rifling as much as 30 thou sooner than target bullets when seated to mag length. Being the Precision Forum maybe someone can give some more input on this. Sorry I've not tried these out past 300m yet.
GunNewb said:
I just picked up a ton of the 150 gr hornady FMJBT. Hoping to go past 100 yards this winter. My goal is to get some steel and push out to 300, 500, and eventually even 800. (shoot for some groups and see what I can get- mostly shooting of steel 12"x12" in field positions to develop a deadly accurate hunting shot)

For those longer ranges like 500-600 Ill prolly have to start throwing the more expensive 168gr sierra match kings but out to 300-500 will I be well served by the 150 gr hornady?

Anyone else have any bright ideas? The bullet MUST be economical as I am planning to get a good bit of practice in to try and make myself suck a bit less.

I can also get the 150gr BTSP BULLET BoatTailSP 100/Bx for $29.00 vs $23.00 for the 150 gr FMJBT. Is it worth the $$?



Im loading for a bedded + slightly accurized norinco m14, IMR 4064
Click to expand...
 
The 150 FMJ is not an accuracy bullet. It would be a weaklink in your set up. I spoke to Joyce Hornady only once in my life - and it was about this very issue. he told me that the soft point would shoot groups half the size of the FMJ. This was because of QC on wall thickness and uniformity of the bullet base.

Better bullets cost more money. Given your rifle, there is a diminishing return as you spend more and more on bullets.

The Hornady 150g flat based soft point shoots much better groups than the FMJ, at only a slight increase in cost. I suggest you try a box of them and also the 150 boat tail soft point and the Hornady 168 boat tail soft point. See if your rifle has a love affair with one of these cheap bullets.

I got the best results with the 150 FBSP and the 168 BTSP. They shot as well as the match bullets, at a much cheaper price.
 
Berger OTM bullets were designed with this application in mind...


Haagen_Dazs said:
Basically, Body only resize, then Neck Only resize. Don't use the FL dies (ruins concentrically).
Click to expand...

I use mostly FL Type-S dies (even in my boltguns) because they give me the best concentricity.
 
I fully agree with the posters above that the Hornady 150FMJBT is not a terribly accurate bullet.

But if the original poster has not accurized his M14, it's probably a 2+ MOA rifle... in which case, paying more money for better ammo would not be giving him any improvement in accuracy.
 
NM unitized gas system+ piston, upgraded spring + guide, tightened op rod guide, no flash hider, trigger job, bedded(albeit by a gunnewb). I look forward to being done and buying a box of federal match ammo to see what its capable of then working up a load with these bullets to see what I can do.

@skullboy thanks! getting an adjustable gas plug for the heavy ones.

Sorry to muck up precision forum but you folks are the best to handle this one much appreciated and much learned!! Ill manage my expectations. Lemme know where yall find bulk, accurate bullets for cheap?

thanks to above posters Ill manage my expectations! Sounds like gravy for what Im doing
 
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