Bullet weight vs diameter as it relates to stopping power

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G-Force24

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Perhaps in interesting topic.

I have a .308 win, love it for hunting, but I have recently began to think hard about getting something with some more umpf

So here is the topic. What has better overall stopping power, or what makes a bigger difference. Bullet diameter or velocity considering bullet weight would be roughly the same based on availability.

338 Federal with 225gr travelling at 2450 approx fps.
300 win mag with either 220 or 230gr travelling at approx 2650 approx FPS.

My velocities may not be perfect but the point remains, a 308 cal projectile travelling faster, than a wider diameter but slower 338

Thoughts?

Edited, Bullet diameter vs Bullet speed for a faster drop of an animal (moose bear)
 
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Stopping power to me means up close and personal so I like big and slow break bone power. Don't need to kill outright but does need to stop all forward motion.
 
What happens when solid copper bullets are used? Do the same rules apply to SD numbers ? They seem to penetrate like heavy bullets at a lighter weight with more velocity. 130 gr ttsx from a 308 at 3050 fps shows good numbers except for SD.

I have a 308 and have been thinking of 7mm RM or a 280. I'm sure my 308 is fine but so many choices to play with.:)
 
Ya speed kills .....just look at all those accidents on YouTube with motorcycles...boats ...cars...etc...etc...
But again speed does kill ...there’s something about seen parts fly and an explosion and red mist from a bullet flying over 4300 fps....
God bless the .220 swift for coyotes....lmao..lmao
Anything north of 2400 fps is killed ....
Unless your trying to kill a tank ....but anything is dead.....
I went with that as well bigger...bigger..".equals bull####...just a sore shoulder...I down graded in calibers...and my 25-06 with a 100 grain bullet has no problem putting game down....with in range. And animal as well ....
It’s your choice .....buy what you like and enjoy it and be safe with it
Cheers
 
The 338 Federal with a 225 gr bullet at 2450 fps will have a muzzle energy of approx 3000 ft-lbs, while your 300 Win Mag and a 220 gr bullet at 2650 fps will have approx 3430 ft-lbs of
muzzle energy. (using the velocities you have given)
So the 300 Win Mag wins the muzzle energy race. This is due to the higher initial velocity. If initial velocities were equal, the 338 would have more energy, but only by 100 ft-lbs.
The 338 225 gr bullet has an SD (sectional density) of 0.281 and the 30 cal 220 gr bullet has a SD of 0.331 The higher the SD, the better the penetration is.
So the 300 wins the penetration competition. And this is before you have added the extra velocity of the 300 Win Mag. While SD may be an indicator in a bullets ability to penetrate, it alone does not guarantee "stopping power".
If you were to compare the same type of bullet (i.e. Nosler Partition), the 338 225 gr bullet has a higher BC (ballistic coefficient) than the 308 220 gr bullet vs (0.454 vs 0.351) which means a higher degree of aerodynamic efficiency which will retain its velocity better over range. At a certain point down range the 338 bullet will eventualy carry more energy than the 308 cal bullet.
The 338 cal bullet has a larger frontal area than the 308 cal bullet (due to larger diameter), which will impart more energy on the target with the initial impact and penetration, than the 308 cal bullet. Some would argue that it is marginal, while others will argue that it is distinct. It may not be as readily apparent in this instance vs a larger difference in bullet diameters as in a 6.5 cal bullet and a 375 cal bullet.

So, it would depend at what range you are considering the stopping power to be measured at.
Are you considering this for on-game harvesting performance and killing power or for stopping a charge at short range?

I can say from experience that both cartridges are effectiveon big game in the field from caribou to bison.
Each has its strengths and advantages. It would depend on what you are hunting, and in what type of terrain or environment.
 
If you want the optimal killing power - go with both high velocity and larger diameter.

If lead bullets float your boat use an accubond or something like that in that 338 federal of lower weight (180 gr 2700-2800 fps)

Higher velocity in lead bullets kills so well in my opinion due to fragmentation. If you are eating your quarry that may or may not be a concern for you.

If you want to run a mono-metal a 160 gr TTSX will be going a fair bit quicker and still penetrate quite well. My personal strategy is to go higher caliber with a light fast mono metal. So far no critters have lived to file a complaint.
 
Lets be honest, the 308 is effectively a modern 303 british.

If the choice is between 300 and 338 federal, its not close. A better comparison would be the 300 vs 338wm. A 338 bore is not large though, your not blowing legs off.

Enough gun, to push a competent projectile above 2600ft/sec to initiate hydrostatic shock, at the range hunted. Within the shooters recoil tolerance and skill to place the shot.
 
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HI I'm old now. [72].
So I've changed calibers that I hunt with.
I now hunt with 308 Winchester, [Rem Mod 7 and Savage 99C's] mostly.
I just love my 243, deadly on bears.
My biggest guns were a 338 Winchester Magnum and a 45-70 THUMPER.
You have to see it, to beilieve the power of this round.
I have 2 30-30's, a single shot H&R and a Marlin 336RC.
They are a joy to carry when I check the bear baits.
I also have a new 7mm Rem, Magnum just in case I get a longshot.
 
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G-Force24 said:
Perhaps in interesting topic.

I have a .308 win, love it for hunting, but I have recently began to think hard about getting something with some more umpf

So here is the topic. What has better overall stopping power, or what makes a bigger difference. Bullet diameter or velocity considering bullet weight would be roughly the same based on availability.

338 Federal with 225gr travelling at 2450 approx fps.
300 win mag with either 220 or 230gr travelling at approx 2650 approx FPS.

My velocities may not be perfect but the point remains, a 308 cal projectile travelling faster, than a wider diameter but slower 338

Thoughts?

Edited, Bullet diameter vs Bullet speed for a faster drop of an animal (moose bear)
Click to expand...

The variables involved in answering this question are many.

- Bullet weight
- Bullet diameter
- Bullet construction
- Impact velocity
- Impact location on game. (heavy bone, ribs/lung, no bone at all, CNS hit)
- Size of game
- What is the game animal doing at time of impact (running or standing at ease)?
- Shooter's shooting ability and or the presence of "buck fever" at time of shot.
- Shooter's confidence (or lack of) in their equipment/bullet.
- Quality of shooting equipment. (proper choice of scope, mounts and accurate rifle)
- The list goes on. :)
 
Use small, fast, light and soft bullets on small, fast, light and soft animals. Naturally it follows that big, slow, heavy and hard animals are better served big, slow heavy, and hard bullets.
 
G-Force24 said:
Perhaps in interesting topic.

I have a .308 win, love it for hunting, but I have recently began to think hard about getting something with some more umpf

So here is the topic. What has better overall stopping power, or what makes a bigger difference. Bullet diameter or velocity considering bullet weight would be roughly the same based on availability.

338 Federal with 225gr travelling at 2450 approx fps.
300 win mag with either 220 or 230gr travelling at approx 2650 approx FPS.

My velocities may not be perfect but the point remains, a 308 cal projectile travelling faster, than a wider diameter but slower 338

Thoughts?

Edited, Bullet diameter vs Bullet speed for a faster drop of an animal (moose bear)
Click to expand...

You have missed a very important element of terminal performance, which is bullet construction. Mass X velocity squared gives us an idea of what can be expected from a given caliber, weight, and velocity, but without knowing the construction of the bullet, we don't know if its suitable for elephants, deer, crows, or just punching paper. When selecting a bullet for hunting, the density of the animal must be considered, and we should have some expectation of the amount of penetration needed to ensure a clean kill.

Perhaps the first thing to consider is how a bullet kills game. The animal dies when oxygen no longer reaches the brain, causing the brain to die. This can be achieved by interrupting the flow of oxygenated blood to the brain, by destroying the lungs, the heart, or through simple blood loss. It can also be achieved by the destruction of the central nervous system which controls the anatomical functions of the body. Finally, the bullet can kill by creating a wound which is not immediately fatal, but becomes infected, resulting in a long unpleasant death for the game.

Most game in North America can be killed with a bullet/velocity combination that produces 12-18" of penetration, but there are exceptions such as bison or big bears at close range, where 30" of penetration is comforting, and there might be an argument that 24" is beneficial on elk and moose. Penetration of an expanding bullet is reduced with the increase in impact velocity, since the bullet changes shape more quickly, which also produces a wider-shallower wound channel. Penetration of a well designed non expanding game bullet increases with the increase in impact velocity, since there is no change in shape, and the shape enhances straight line penetration. If an animal is big enough, and if shot with two bullets, one which expands and one which does not, the wound volume will be identical if bullet weights and velocities are the same; only the shape of the wound will be different.

There is no ideal cartridge or bullet for all game under all circumstances, although some do a number of things very well. If we say for example that a .300 Winchester firing a premium bullet is necessary to kill a moose, the assertion will be met with laughter and the fact that a million moose have been killed with cup and core bullets fired from .30/30s, will be quickly pointed out. The point is that the .300 will kill a moose in circumstances where a .30/30 will not, and a bullet which expands and penetrates sufficiently to use on a moose at .30/30 velocities, is completely unsuitable when the impact velocity is 800 feet per second faster.
 
In my experience of shooting deer I have used several different calibers over the years. 30-06 with 180g, 308 with 165, 243 with 100g and my 270wsm with 140g. I would lean towards the light and fast bullets for deer. The 270wsm just hammers them, not even a kick in one case. Now deer are not that big, so if we are talking big heavy animals then thing would be different. But I would not hesitate to use that 270 wsm on Moose, Elk or big bears. Now if we are talking African big game I would want a 375 H&H or something along those lines.
 
The OP cannot be answered. There are way too many variables that are ignored in the question.

Read Boomer's post. Few hunters understand that, " Penetration of an expanding bullet is reduced with the increase in impact velocity, since the bullet changes shape more quickly, which also produces a wider-shallower wound channel." If you shoot two identical bullets into identical medium, after about 2500-2700 fps (depending on the bullet construction) more velocity will create less penetration, not more (if penetration is the only goal).
 
A frangible bullet at high velocity open's the bullet up more violently, think of it like a parachute slowing it down during penetration. The same bullet at a slower velocity won't open the bullet up as quickly allowing for more penetration. The same apply's to solid bullets, too slow the bullet will not open up and could pencil straight through, at above 2200 fps the bullet will open up causing a bigger wound channel. OP, bullets of the same construction and weight, the heavier bullet for caliber, in this case the 300 win mag, will have a higher sectional density and ballistic coefficient and driven at a higher velocity, as in your suggestions, the 300 win mag will have more energy.
 
The answer to the OP is C). -Barnes X bullet from whichever gun you own. Shoot a lighter bullet faster with equal penetration and
performance to cup and core bullets weighing more or shot from larger cartridges.

Whichever the question Barnes is the answer. Unless the question is about Varmint bullets then things open up some.
 
There are three ways to go;

1 - fast and light
2 - slow and heavy
3 - fast and heavy

#3 is always the best bet, and works if anything can... many can't handle "fast & heavy" though...

#1 & #2 work equally in some situations and each has it's own niche, remembering of course that bullet construction comes into play here... bullet construction is a greater consideration in the "fast & light" category than it is in the "slow & heavy" category. On a square CNS hit, brain pan, spinal cord etc... they all work... on a frontal (charging bear) scenario, I want the heavier bullet at the corresponding slower speed, as penetration is required to reach the vitals. On a dissuasion scenario, to break off an attack or to distract long enough to get to a safer location, I would want a "fast & light" round... if the shot is NOT on target, "fast & light" would also be better with greater shock imparted.

It is all a balance, there is no perfect choice, but regardless, choose a good bullet, and practice to be on target when it counts... if you are going to fall apart at the "moment of truth," it really doesn't matter what you are holding.

I prefer to carry a light, agile rifle in a reasonably fast cartridge with a moderately heavy, well constructed bullet. That has been many different rifles and cartridges over the years, but the current rifle is a good example of what I mean; a Ruger M77 MKII stainless .350 Rem Mag with a hot load under the 250 grain Partition. I have a high degree of confidence that this rig can handle what can possibly be handled.
 
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