Buying dies. Mystery procedure?

zimbu

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I want to start reloading, so I went to buy a reloading setup today and came home empty handed. The shop owner told me that I needed to be shown how to set up the dies and would not elaborate on the process. He said that since chamber reamers and resizing die reamers wear down with use, thereby creating slightly(.0005") larger/smaller cut, the dies would have to be matched to my rifle to prevent brass failure. Bring in your rifle.

I am new to reloading and don't know much about it, but this strikes me as being a little odd. Is he just really fussy or is he telling me stories. I just watched a couple instructional vids on youtube that indicated that FL resizing isn't needed for a bolt action rifle. It said brass will last longer without FL resizing as it stretches to fit your particular chamber better.

Can anyone shed a little more light on this for me?
 
Let me start by saying that i'm a newb too. I just watched some online video's and did alot of reading. then bought some dies. The reloading manual I have explaines how to set up your dies. Makes sure to check all the specs on the brass after to make sure it's set up right. I have reloaded 100 30-06 and 300 .223 I have not had to change how the dies are set up

You do not have to FL resize brass that has already been fired out of that rifle
 
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He said that since chamber reamers and resizing die reamers wear down with use, thereby creating slightly(.0005") larger/smaller cut, the dies would have to be matched to my rifle to prevent brass failure. Bring in your rifle.

WTF?

I have never heard this before. :confused:
 
When you buy new dies, the instructions on how to set them up is not complicated at all. Any and all "new " brass should be resized full length the first time. If it is fired from only one rfile, then resizing the neck only does allow longer brass life. All dies are made to the same specs and to have "custom" dies made as I beleive is "suggested" by the gunsmith, would be very costly and really not warranted. More money in his pocket. Unless he caters to the competition shooters that have special guns that have very worn chambers and need bigger dies sizes.

i have reloaded thousands of all sizes of brass. Many different guns, and calibers and never had a problem using factory spec dies from a store. When resizing, the only real problem that can develop is the length of the brass.... as it stretches. There are length trimmers that take care of this problem too. Read a reloading book and take it slow, it really is not that complicated. There are many of us on here that will give advice one way or the other.
 
So, he wouldn't sell you dies? That's VERY ODD! FL dies are just to bring the ammo back to SAAMI specs, they don't need to match your rifle (other than by specific caliber, obviously). Neck sizing dies, just size the neck, the rest of the case is formed to your rifle, from being fired in it, so again, no special chamber matching is required. The guy seems like he really didn't know what he's doing, and isn't very intrerested in selling things.
I don't know what to tell you, other than maybe go somewhere else, or just tell him what dies you want, and that's that. Unless he's going to custom create a die from a blank for you, there's no reason for him to need to see your rifle. And unless you're shooting some oddball round, or are going for some benchrest record, there's no reason for that, any factory die set should be good. I'd say get a FL die, you can size just the neck with it, and you'll need to Full length resize eventually anyway. Even with a bolt, eventually the cases will be difficult to chamber.
 
I think the shop owner has been sniffing the Hoppes to long and his brain cells are all dead. If the story is as you say, I think I'd be ordering supplies on line and not cross the threshold of the shop again. You might end up as the victim in an exorcism.
 
Hi Zimbu

It seems you and the dealer aren't on the same page. The reloading dies you buy need to match the cartridge you're reloading same as the ammo you buy needs to match your firearm. Beyond this, dies are dies. Basically, cheap ones will do, better ones cost more. It can certainly get a lot more complicated than what I've described here but since you're new, it hardly seems likely that it would be necessary for a gunsmith to fire up the ol lathe in order to keep you happy.
 
the dies would have to be matched to my rifle to prevent brass failure

Dies don't have to be matched to your rifle/chamber unless you're on the OC side of careful and doing benchrest. For normal guns, it's just silly.

Get a couple of reloading manual (Lyman / Sierra), read up, and load.

Also, you're right about neck-sizing on bolt actions. This matches your brass to your specific chamber.
 
Either the dealer is saying something outrageous, or he knows something important that maybe you don't. Is your rifle a standard factory chamber - or a custom chamber. Is it a K-Hornet or Ackley Improved?
 
If you are loading for anything ordinary, set the sizing die into the press so that the case holder just touches the bottom of the sizing die. IIRC the instructions for the Lee dies say one turn out to neck size.

The counterman at the shop you were in is full of crap, and is a liability to the shop, if he is not the owner.

Reloading is as easy as reading the instructions, and following the recipe! If it were not, there would not be as much of it happening!

Find a different place to spend your money!

Cheers
Trev
 
Dies don't have to be matched to your rifle/chamber unless you're on the OC side of careful and doing benchrest. For normal guns, it's just silly.

Actually you do need to match dies to rifle - 30-06 dies for a 30-06 rifle, .270 win dies for a .270 rifle, etc.... maybe this is what the dealer was talking about??
 
Thanks everyone! So far the advice I have received here makes a heck of a lot more sense than the story I heard at the gunshop.

So, he wouldn't sell you dies? That's VERY ODD!

Well I was up there talking to him last week about buying a setup, and he suggested that I bring in 20pcs of brass, and for a nominal fee of $20 he'd show me how to set everything up and load 20rds to get a feel for it. Seems like $20 well spent. So yesterday I go back with brass, and get the runaround, "come back next week with your rifle."

That's not gonna happen the way I see it.

...any factory die set should be good. I'd say get a FL die, you can size just the neck with it, and you'll need to Full length resize eventually anyway. Even with a bolt, eventually the cases will be difficult to chamber.

That's what I thought!

Either the dealer is saying something outrageous, or he knows something important that maybe you don't. Is your rifle a standard factory chamber - or a custom chamber. Is it a K-Hornet or Ackley Improved?

Nope. Just a regular old .270win Tikka T3L S/S

Get a couple of reloading manual (Lyman / Sierra), read up, and load.

At his recommendation I did pick up a Lyman Reloading Manual 49th Edition.

All dies are made to the same specs and to have "custom" dies made as I beleive is "suggested" by the gunsmith, would be very costly and really not warranted.

Custom dies. Now there's a thought, but that's definitely not the case here.
Before I left the store I asked if he had the .270 dies in stock(Hornady). He only had 1 set left and put it aside for me. Suddenly the story about matching (or "setting up"??) factory Hornady dies to a particular rifle chamber didn't make sense. Warning bells going off...

Actually you do need to match dies to rifle - 30-06 dies for a 30-06 rifle, .270 win dies for a .270 rifle, etc.... maybe this is what the dealer was talking about??

Nope, just to clarify here's the story I was told.

"The chamber of any rifle, in this case .270win, is cut with a reamer. Over the course of cutting 30 rifle chambers the reamer gets dull and must be resharpened or replaced. Therefore, chamber #30 will be slightly smaller than chamber #1 which was cut when the reamer was new. The same happens at the die factory. If you use a die that was cut with a new reamer to size brass for a rifle that was chambered with a used reamer, the brass will be too big for that rifle and vice versa. This will cause catastrophic case head separation.
If we cheat a little to extend reamer life, we do that by resharpening the reamer larger so we get an extra 10 chambers out of it." ?????:confused::eek::eek::onCrack::onCrack:

He would not elaborate on the solution to this "problem."

Cheat on reamer life? Sounds sloppy to me!
I don't know what the size difference would be between a worn reamer and a new one. I would think a chamber would be milled to a tolerance of something like -.0010 +.0025, and, since the chamber is tapered, final size would be fine tuned by controlling the depth of the reamer?? None of which is relavant to me reloading my own ammo!
I dunno, maybe this guy gets 50 cycles out of his brass when most people only get 5, but his explanation just doesn't add up.

If prices at a smaller local store are somewhat competitive I will generally deal there as opposed to buying from a large corporation. Unfortunately, in this case I think I'll take my business elsewhere.


Thanks again all! Keep the comments coming...:):)
 
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I want a referral to his reamer sharpener that sharpens them larger! Really!

Sharpen a reamer, and you take material off it. Makes the chamber smaller. Not larger. Same goes for reamers used to make dies.

Idiot can't even BS a good line. Like he'd be able to measure the difference between the dies and the chamber, anyways. If he was knowledgeable enough to do that, he'd be knowledgeable enough to be able to explain to you that the range of tolerances for chambers is looser overall than the range of tolerances for dies, so that a die that is at the largest acceptable size, will still size a case down far enough to fit into a chamber that is at the small end of the acceptable size range for chambers.
And he'd just sell you the dies you need, without feeding you a line of crap.

Got any good mail order catalogs? Suggest starting with Wholesale Sports, Cabela's (formerly known as S.I.R.), Russell's Shooting Supplies, and Bass Pro Sports.
Does Ellwood Epps still put out a catalog? Worth checking.

Cheers
Trev
 
Go back to the shop and tell this poor fellow he had better check his furnace. I'm pretty sure it's leaking carbon-monoxide or something. If this guy is the owner, he should seriously think of a new line of work because guns are not for him.

Just go and get yourself a reloading kit. For just loading 270 rounds, go get the RCBS Rockchucker kit and a set of standard 270 dies. If you can find one in your area, I still recommend the Lee reloading book.

Don't forget to lube your cases to avoid getting one stuck in your resizing/decapping die.
 
For sure, I think the owner is confused, best bet is to go somewhere else, who knows what other misleading advice you might get.
 
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