Hey guys
So I have been in search of a new barrel for my c96 and I finally managed to get one. I have assembled the other parts I needed to get this fixed so I went to put it on the upper but found an issue pretty quick... there wasn't a groove milled into the underside area of the chamber to mate with the protrusion on the leading edge of the top of the receiver. Further inspection showed that my bolt wouldn't fit completely either.
Anyways now to make a long story short this upper isnt actually for a c96. Turns out its either for a m712 Schnelfeuer variant c96, or a rare m1930 detachable mag variant of the c96. For some reason there are limited photos of the internals of the m712, and even less info on a description of c96 differences or potential parts interchangeability.
Just inferring from the 1 or 2 pictures that I have found , that have been clear enough to discern any detail, the "bump" on the bottom edge at the rear of the bolt has been conoured differently in order for the bolt to be caught by the hammer once the magazine follower stops the bolt. The issue is the bump on the c96 bolt is much longer and won't fit the corresponding notch it the upper to fit correctly.
Additionally it looks like the m712, in contrast with the standard c96, doesn't have a protrusion at the front of the receiver and naturally no groove to mate on the bottom of the chamber area on the upper.
Lastly since the m712 was designed to take mags the feed lips that would be present on a fixed mag c96 upper are gone to allow for the feed lips of the mag.
That is the summary of my research, so now here are my questions:
(If anybody has a m712 and wouldn't mind taking photos of the details above and posting to this thread, just to confirm my assumptions that would be awesome!)
First up if the only differences relevant to this scenario are the ones above how would I best approach this to make a working c96?
Do I sell it and find the correct upper? (with everything going on these days I wouldn't think that's a viable or realistic option though)
Can I just have the groove milled out to match the receiver protrusion?
Can I have the bolt "bump" recontoured to fit the corresponding notch for it in the upper receiver so it will properly seat?
Is there any practical or even possible solution to the feed lips issue short of designing some kind of detachable mag system which honestly would be an absolute last resort (given our current unfortunate situation) Further research showed that m712 mags will not fit a standard c96 frame for at least 2 reasons:
There's no provision for a mag catch on the original c96
The m712 magwell is slightly wider, I am assuming to accommodate the magazine wall thickness to ensure no amunition capacity is lost by the double stack being thinner. That's again just my assumption
I discovered back in the 80s or so some importer in the states, I think oyster bay industries off the top of my head, brought in some c96 detachable mag conversions. These were designed to replace the mag floorplate with a special magazine catch system. I am assuming the mags are thin enough to fit a standard c96 frame being that this is what this is designed for. (A lesson I try to remember from my youth... "Assume" makes an ASS out of U and ME). The only negative with just going this route is that they appear to be unobtainable in 2023, which is why I noted above having some sort of proprietary system made.
Lastly are there any other major considerations I am missing here? Yes the rails of the upper and lower slide together but are just just stopped by the lack of the notch.
Any CONSTRUCTIVE comments are welcomed and appreciated. It really doesn't help any to come here, or to any other thread asking a question, only to say "Why would you do that? Thats a rediculous idea just go back to 1897 and buy a new one". Gee, thanks for that nugget of wisdom. If I could "Just get a new one" I certainly would have just avoided all this.
Anyways thanks again for any help guys!
So I have been in search of a new barrel for my c96 and I finally managed to get one. I have assembled the other parts I needed to get this fixed so I went to put it on the upper but found an issue pretty quick... there wasn't a groove milled into the underside area of the chamber to mate with the protrusion on the leading edge of the top of the receiver. Further inspection showed that my bolt wouldn't fit completely either.
Anyways now to make a long story short this upper isnt actually for a c96. Turns out its either for a m712 Schnelfeuer variant c96, or a rare m1930 detachable mag variant of the c96. For some reason there are limited photos of the internals of the m712, and even less info on a description of c96 differences or potential parts interchangeability.
Just inferring from the 1 or 2 pictures that I have found , that have been clear enough to discern any detail, the "bump" on the bottom edge at the rear of the bolt has been conoured differently in order for the bolt to be caught by the hammer once the magazine follower stops the bolt. The issue is the bump on the c96 bolt is much longer and won't fit the corresponding notch it the upper to fit correctly.
Additionally it looks like the m712, in contrast with the standard c96, doesn't have a protrusion at the front of the receiver and naturally no groove to mate on the bottom of the chamber area on the upper.
Lastly since the m712 was designed to take mags the feed lips that would be present on a fixed mag c96 upper are gone to allow for the feed lips of the mag.
That is the summary of my research, so now here are my questions:
(If anybody has a m712 and wouldn't mind taking photos of the details above and posting to this thread, just to confirm my assumptions that would be awesome!)
First up if the only differences relevant to this scenario are the ones above how would I best approach this to make a working c96?
Do I sell it and find the correct upper? (with everything going on these days I wouldn't think that's a viable or realistic option though)
Can I just have the groove milled out to match the receiver protrusion?
Can I have the bolt "bump" recontoured to fit the corresponding notch for it in the upper receiver so it will properly seat?
Is there any practical or even possible solution to the feed lips issue short of designing some kind of detachable mag system which honestly would be an absolute last resort (given our current unfortunate situation) Further research showed that m712 mags will not fit a standard c96 frame for at least 2 reasons:
There's no provision for a mag catch on the original c96
The m712 magwell is slightly wider, I am assuming to accommodate the magazine wall thickness to ensure no amunition capacity is lost by the double stack being thinner. That's again just my assumption
I discovered back in the 80s or so some importer in the states, I think oyster bay industries off the top of my head, brought in some c96 detachable mag conversions. These were designed to replace the mag floorplate with a special magazine catch system. I am assuming the mags are thin enough to fit a standard c96 frame being that this is what this is designed for. (A lesson I try to remember from my youth... "Assume" makes an ASS out of U and ME). The only negative with just going this route is that they appear to be unobtainable in 2023, which is why I noted above having some sort of proprietary system made.
Lastly are there any other major considerations I am missing here? Yes the rails of the upper and lower slide together but are just just stopped by the lack of the notch.
Any CONSTRUCTIVE comments are welcomed and appreciated. It really doesn't help any to come here, or to any other thread asking a question, only to say "Why would you do that? Thats a rediculous idea just go back to 1897 and buy a new one". Gee, thanks for that nugget of wisdom. If I could "Just get a new one" I certainly would have just avoided all this.
Anyways thanks again for any help guys!
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