caliber selection

which caliber

  • .308

    Votes: 75 78.9%
  • .223

    Votes: 20 21.1%

  • Total voters
    95

Fenix.NZ

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
ok so i cant decide, but all i know is im settled on a bolt gun.

.223 or .308

will be used from everything from deer, right down to the highly dangerous paper targets ( hunting here is usually in the bush, shots will be at 100m or less 90% of the time )

targets out to about 800 or so as im only a beginner, i understand both calibers can do it easily.

i just cant decide.

please comment on why you picked the one you did
 
308, because either can punch targets, but if you're going to hunt with it, you want "plenty of gun" (which a 308 is) and not "just barely enough gun, if shot placement is good" (which is what a 223 is).
 
I'm a newb as well....just bought my first gun. I pondered the same question for a while, and I concluded on .223 for my first. Some of the info that went into making my decision...

1) flinch. Many people pointed out that there is a risk of developing a flinch starting with a larger caliber. Some countered that .308 isn't really a terribly large caliber, so could be used by a starter.

2) pain. Having not shot a .308, I can't comment on the truth to this, but some pointed out that you can shoot more out of a smaller caliber before you start to feel sore and fatigued.

2) cost. .223 is a bit cheaper = more likely to shoot more.

3) use. I mainly want to shoot targets, so a larger caliber is unneccessary, but for hunting, there are minimum sizes you can use (dictated by each province i believe). If I recall correctly, .223 is too small for deer, but can be used on coyotes etc.

4) distance. .308 will shoot farther and have greater accuracy in the >600m range

5) name. My wife is scared of me getting a gun, and .223 sounds like a "twenty-two", which brings up associations of her brothers gopher hunting days as a teen.

6) number of guns. Have you ever thought of getting 2 guns? Ideally, I would have liked to get a .22lr for pure trigger time (cheap ammo, easy and not punishing to shoot etc.) AND a .308 for the occasional hunt and practice with the feel of a different gun. However, I was limited to ONE gun by the spouse, so I chose something that I could have the fun of blinging out (scopes, bipods etc.) and still get me most of what I wanted vs. getting two (which is what I would call ideal).

I think I still will go pick up a .22lr after christmas.....ammo is 1/10th the price of .223 still, and cheap one can be < $200.

My question for the masses is this: how do you say .223 properly? Is it: "point two two three" or "twenty two three" or just "two two three".
 
How big are the deer in New Zealand?

I would have said 223 all the way, but I'm not convinced a 223 is optimal for deer. It's the "Human hunting" round of choice with NATO, but doesn't have terrific stopping power. For everything else it's perfect.

Killswitch... Glad to see you starting off on the right foot. I shake my head at people that think they should start of with a 900 Kaboomin Magnum. You made a good choice.
 
deer arent terribly large around my area.. 90-130kg would be the range.

i should mention this will also be for goats and rabbits, the occassional possum in a tree ( depending on backdrop )

its not my first rifle.. ive got now and have previously owned 3 m14s , i dont flinch , have a .22 for trigger time and i make full use of it.

im just 100% undecided .
 
If you are willing to place your shots, the 223 will drop deer well. Scirocco makes some controlled expansion bullets that are supposed to break through near shoulder shots too. Barnes too.

The 75 or 80gr Amax/Bergers would work wonders on boiler room broadside or CNS shots.

For everything else you mentioned, it will work with less muss and fuss.

As for accuracy beyond 600m, the 223 will keep up with the 308 and actually drift less vs SAAMI 308 spec loads.

Jerry
 
The downside of buying a 223 is that later on down the road, if you want to rebarrel it after you've shot out the bbl, you're stuck with a 223 bolt face vs 308 where when you burn the barrel out of it, you have a lot more options in better calibers. If you ever want to sell it also, especially if it's a remington, you will be able to more easily recoupe your investment.
 
If you have a choice between a Ford mustang or a Honda civic, and both cost the same, which would you choose?

Sure, the mustang costs a little more for fuel and may take a bit of getting used to but why not have the extra power to start with.

Just a thought............


Dave
 
Your Choice

I couldn't think of choosing one or the other that's why I have some of both.
If I had one choice I would take the 223 but would make sure it had a better twist than 1/12" it should have a 1/8" or close to that. That way you can increase the bullet weight if you want to.
I target shoot a Sportco and I some times hunt with a Sako AI but both are in 1/12" so I have a couple of thousand rounds of SS109 sitting in crates waiting for a 1/8" to show up.
 
I would have to say .308 for hunting .223 for the smaller game what the heck buy both save yourself some stress
 
If you have a choice between a Ford mustang or a Honda civic, and both cost the same, which would you choose?

Sure, the mustang costs a little more for fuel and may take a bit of getting used to but why not have the extra power to start with.

Just a thought............


Dave

Honda.. see we have jap imports over here mainly .. my friend nelson raced a big dirty v8 ford ( and a holden ) .. beat them both with his mitsi evo ( on the track of course .. never on the street ;) ) .. and was then subsequently beaten by a honda civic :D

that aside.. i do see what you're saying.. i think ill follow everyone recomendations and get the .308, ill save the .223 for when i join the army next year.. i get one for free then :D
 
Having a .223 is NOT a downside, if after you wear the barrell out (not likely any time soon), you rebarrell it you have a shiny new .223 AND who says you can't have a .223 AND a .308 ? (Do YOU only have one gun?)

And with regards to the Mustang / Civic idea , most new drivers (shooters) would be well advised to learn on the Civic before jumping into a 5.0L.
Helps keep the mind on important techniques that you need to learn for accuracy reasons and Learning to reload PROPERLY is cheaper with the smaller caliber.

If you spend 1-2 yrs mastering the .223 you then move up. A properly built/tuned .223 will shoot decent out to 800 yds. Ask yourself honestly, how much room do you have at YOUR range, how often will you get out past the usefull range of a .223 ?

M.
 
As for accuracy beyond 600m, the 223 will keep up with the 308 and actually drift less vs SAAMI 308 spec loads.

Jerry

Do you have data for this claim. Also what energy would a 62, 69, 80 gr etc bullet have at that distance. You indicated in the past that you shoot out to 1000m w/ the 223, hopefully for just punching holes in paper. What is the drop at that distance vs a 308 and find it hard to believe that a 223 bullet would be affected less by wind than a 308. Just curious.
 
EC, you can easily prove it to yourself with a ballistics program like JBM (google it).

SAAMI 308 155gr is 2850fps (2900fps is within reason). BC 0.45 to 0.5
175gr at 2600fps (2700fps would be a very fast barrel). BC 0.496 to 0.5

223 75gr Amax or Berger 2950fps BC 0.435 to 45
80gr Amax or Berger 2850fps. BC 0.46 to 475

Crunch the numbers and you would see that the 223 is no slouch. Certainly works in real world shooting.

A few US F/TR records are now held by the 223. One was shot last Aug by a 12 year old and reset the 500m national record.

Used a 223 and......a Stock SAVAGE. Gotto like that.

Yes, there are those who super size their 308's but that is definitely well above SAAMI pressures. Some are even over proof pressure loads. That is neither safe nor all that smart but YMMV.

As for retained energy, well, there is no argument there but there was never an intention of hunting at LR with the 223.

Jerry
 
Back
Top Bottom