Calling all experts new wildcat 303 converted to 45colt (superlong) case fill issues

[aesache]

Hi Everyone,

I recently acquired an H&R Survivor that shoots 45colt and 410 shot shells. Its a great rifle but i am trying to improve accuracy. I have now shot a few hundred rounds of 45 long colt out of it. Good at 50 yards to hit a 10" steel plate. Move back to 100 yard and with jacketed ammo it shoots minute of barn door. So i switched to cast and powder coated 230 gr bullets that are a little oversized after powder coating they drop at about 453 to 454 in size. The gun seems to like this with slight leading.

So hear is my question. The chamber on this gun is 3inches before it hits rifling. I have recently got and fire formed some 303 British brass so that I have less "jump" from the bullet to the rifling as i am sure this "jump" is what is causing the issues with leading and cant be helping with accuracy.

So here is my question. Is 6.5 grains of bullseye going to be enough powder in a fire formed 303 case to ignite in a uniform fashion. I have read a lot about underfilling a case and the over pressure issues it can cause. The case is about 1/5th full with 6.5 grains of bullseye powder.

 

[Andy]

The only concern you'll have with Bullseye and other similarly fast powders is too low a charge and resulting barrel obstructions. The issue to which you refer is believed to occur only in light charges of much slower rifle powders such as 4350 (Secondary Explosion Effect (SSE)) which has caused faces to turn red arguing for or against it for years.

Great idea about finding a way to get the bullet nearer the rifling. 303 Brit will work as would 444 Marlin.

As for 6.5 grs of Bullseye with a 230 gr bullet, I'd start at 10.0 grs and work up to 1200 fps. If you don't have a chronograph you'd need to be much more cautious and I'd start at 10.0 grs and as long as bullets reliably exit the bore, stop right there until you have access to one. Doing these kinds of things "blindly" is not a great idea.

 

[aesache]

The only concern you'll have with Bullseye and other similarly fast powders is too low a charge and resulting barrel obstructions. The issue to which you refer is believed to occur only in light charges of much slower rifle powders such as 4350 (Secondary Explosion Effect (SSE)) which has caused faces to turn red arguing for or against it for years.

Great idea about finding a way to get the bullet nearer the rifling. 303 Brit will work as would 444 Marlin.

As for 6.5 grs of Bullseye with a 230 gr bullet, I'd start at 10.0 grs and work up to 1200 fps. If you don't have a chronograph you'd need to be much more cautious and I'd start at 10.0 grs and as long as bullets reliably exit the bore, stop right there until you have access to one. Doing these kinds of things "blindly" is not a great idea.

That was my next question. 6.5 grains of bullseye is the max recomended load for a standard 45colt case. It will hit a 12 inch gong at 100 yards aiming about 1 foot high. The load data puts that about 900fps

I would like some more velocity but i do not have a Chronograph. Would a larger 303 case reduce velocity of the same load in the standard 45 colt case or would it have a negligible effect. 10 grains is almost double the max charge would that put this in the +P or ruger only loads?. The barrel will handle it but my action is an SB1 and the factory only rates it at 20,000psi. I am wondering if the reason 6.5 grains is listed though is due to the fact that Bullseye does not like to be compressed. I could easily fit 30 grains of bullseye in the 303 case without compressing the powder. That being said I am sure my gun would turn into a grenade with that load.

 

[Ganderite]

I have done similar things. I found it best to anneal after fire forming.

Bullseye would not be my powder of choice. Unique is slower and bulkier, so would fill the case better.

I would try it with and without a square of toilet paper to take up the empty space.

 

[aesache]

I have done similar things. I found it best to anneal after fire forming.

Bullseye would not be my powder of choice. Unique is slower and bulkier, so would fill the case better.

I would try it with and without a square of toilet paper to take up the empty space.

Thanks Ganderite, I have just learned something new. I bought bullseye thinking it was the bulkiest powder. I actually had unique in my hand and put it back thinking bullseye would fill the case better.

DOH!

 

[577/450]

Just a thought,, maybe try filling the empty space with cream of wheat cereal. I use that in my bp loads for my .577 and .577-450.

Maybe try trailboss powder

 

[Mystic Precision]

Look up COW or cream of wheat fireforming.

Small charge of fast pistol powder, cornmeal/cream of wheat, hunk of toilet paper to hold it all in place, POP... case is formed.

Do not need nor want a bullet and is far less stressful on the case.

Compare cartridge base diameters of the cases you want to use. I think the 444 will be too narrow. rim on 303 case too wide?

Assuming you want to use a cast bullet, look up receipes for a similar blackpowder cartridge and use the equivalent in trailboss or whatever the smokless option you want.... or load with blackpowder.

That should get you pointed in the right direction me thinks.

Jerry

 

[aesache]

Just a thought,, maybe try filling the empty space with cream of wheat cereal. I use that in my bp loads for my .577 and .577-450.

Maybe try trailboss powder

EDIT: I have been using TRAILBOSS not BULLSEYE. My brain is mush today as i have been battling a cold.


That is why my max load was 6.5grains and the 10grains idea seemed like a lot to me. Sorry guys

 

[aesache]

Look up COW or cream of wheat fireforming.

Small charge of fast pistol powder, cornmeal/cream of wheat, hunk of toilet paper to hold it all in place, POP... case is formed.

Do not need nor want a bullet and is far less stressful on the case.

Compare cartridge base diameters of the cases you want to use. I think the 444 will be too narrow. rim on 303 case too wide?

Assuming you want to use a cast bullet, look up receipes for a similar blackpowder cartridge and use the equivalent in trailboss or whatever the smokless option you want.... or load with blackpowder.

That should get you pointed in the right direction me thinks.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry
Thats pretty much what I did.

303 cases form just fine i have not tried the 444 cases. if anyone is interested in the process of fireforming 303 to .410 brass shells (same as 45) here is the process i used.

1 - Get old surplus 303 brass.
2 - Anneal brass. If your flame changes color its to hot
3 - Prime with berdan or convert to boxer primers (easy to do) i have done both and both work well
4 - pack mild pistol charge ( i used a 45acp standard load and it worked well)
5 - Pack with cornmeal or instant potatoes followed by piece of cardboard with a drop of white glue to hold it together
6 - load and fire.

A note before you do anything to the case make sure the 303 chambers it may need to have the case rim filed down a bit. I have had to do this with some but not others. Occasionally you will need to firearm twice for desired results i find its about 50/50
I actually had documented this with lots of pictures last time i made 32 of them up. I have been meaning to post a tutorial but have been waiting till my "newbie" status changes to something a little more prestigious.