Can It Be Found #3: The German Kar 88 and Gew 91

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello and Welcome to the third installment of "Can It Be Found!"

Today opens the discussion of two unusual and rare beauties, the German Commission Karabiner Model 88 and Gewehr/Karabiner Model 91.

Personally, any carbine interests me, and so I am facinated by these two, which are quite uncommon from what I hear.

As Mausers are his specialty and devotion, I would like to invite my good friend member NABS to inform us on the 88 and 91 respectively. Please, anyone else who wishes to inform us of the carbines, you are welcomed to put in your two cents!

If anyone owns one, please feel free to post pictures!

The standing questions, as always, for "Can It Be Found" are:

- Can It Be Found? Are these Carbines available in Canada? The USA?

- What is the average current market price range for a carbine in good condition?

- Does anyone have one on CGN and would they care to post pictures?

- Are there any specific variants that draw more value than others? What features and why?

- What date ranges are commonly found in these carbines, are some better than others?

Let the discussion begin!

Yours,
Drachenblut
 
Been looking for one...still looking for one...the hunt continues...

From what I have seen, the Kar 88 and Gew 91s (the former being more common) seem to be rather plentiful in the U.S. Collectors over on Gunboards have posted acquisition prices ranging from $200 up to $600 with condition ranging from fair to very good condition. Unit markings are almost always found on them too.

For our purposes, you'll run into two major variants: The Karabiner 88 and the Gewehr 91. The main visual difference between them is the Gewehr 91 has a stacking hook for use with artillery troops while the Kar 88 was issued mainly to calvary units but not always.

I have seen carbine examples running in the date ranges of 1891 to 1896 and, I think, even as late as 1898.

Many of these carbines will have "n.m." (neue material) stamped on them to indicate a higher grade of steel was used in the production of the barrel. You may also notice a " . " marking stamped just above the maker and date stamp and/or above the "S" stamp. This indicates the barrel to be re-enforced (tapered) compared to the abrupt step barrel found on earlier models.

Some, but not all, Kar 88s and Gewehr 91s may be "S" marked meaning they can accept both the Patrone 88 and Patrone S rounds. It was noted that the muzzle blast and heavy recoil generated by the Patrone S was considered too much for the short carbine and no further conversions would be made and the left over Kar 88s and Gewehr 91s would be left chambered for the Patrone 88 only. This same issue was run into again with the Kar 98 1st and 2nd variation with further developments leading to the Kar98 "lengthened" carbine that we encounter today and is known as the "Kar98a" in the collector market.

Both the Kar 88 and Gew 91 will take the en-bloc style Gewehr 88 clip.

I may very well have to look to the U.S. and import one as my search for one in Canada has been fruitless so far.
 
I have a couple of 1888 rifles, an 1891 Loewe and an 1898 Amberg. The Amberg rifle is marked prominently on the left-hand receiver rail "nm". I was told that this stood for "Neues Muster" (New Issue), meaning that the rifle had been fitted with the new-model barrel. There had been a lot of trouble with the 1888 when it came out; the combination of uncertain powder performance and a very light barrel led to chambers lifting out without bothering to warn the shooter first. The rifle ended up with a very bad name ("Judenflinte": the Jew-Musket, being that a Jewish chap had designed the barrel-jacket).

Curious, I tore both rifles down and found that the barrel on the "nm" was MUCH heavier, especially over the chamber section. There is about a HALF-POUND more steel in the "nm" barrel.

Now I am curious as to the similar markings on the Carbines and I really wonder if there is a difference in barrel-weight between the original '88 and the '88nm.

Can you enlighten me?
.
 
Excellent! Glad to see someone who has one in Canada. Thank you for the info and we look forward to pictures!

To my knowledge, the markings are similar, however the Prussians/Germans never converted the Kar 88 and Gew 91 carbines to take the Mauser stripper clips, and left them in the enbloc clip. When they went to the Patrone S round, I believe very few were converted, as the muzzle blast was considered too excessive. I believe they figured out many of the bugs with the Carbine, especially in the Gew 91. Those Judenflinte rifles are unfortunate, however even in early rifles, as Nabs has shown and I have witnessed, there is sufficient strength to handle mild reloads. The Turks used full load military ball in them, so most are certainly up to the task, if just barely.
 
granite said:
My 1888 rifle is a 88/14 and has 7.91 stamped under the sight so it is a new or at least re-bored barrel and it also has the s stamp as well as the ground and restamped rear sight leaf, no Turk markings either.
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If you have an 88/14, I would love to see pictures as there is only one known example and it is in a U.S. collection at the moment. A huge portion of the Gewehr 88s out on the market are 88/05s from what I have encountered.

You can tell the difference between an 88/05 and an 88/14 simply by the quality of the workmanship performed to the action and the installation of the chargers guides with the 88/14 being on the lower end of overall finish.
 
granite said:
Kar 1888 (Schilling Suhl), Commission 1888 (Steyr) and Commission Carbine (Oesterr) pics as requested.

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That 88 in the middle is the nicest looking rifle I have seen in a while, I have a kidney if you ever need it :eek:
 
granite, BEAUTIFUL Carbines, and a nice rifle. They are indeed a true symbol of the master's craft. A question if I might, what is the provenance of the carbine 88 in the middle? When and where did you acquire it?
 
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