Can It Be Found: Arisaka T-38 Carbines in 8X57mm?

[Drachenblut]

Hello Everyone!

I have recently been considering starting a sort of "mini treasure hunter's show" on CGN, with the aim of calling out some rare and unique oddities every once in a while (I am thinking 1 a week). Also, the aim is seeing if anyone either has one they would like to share information/pictures of, or has knowledge they can add here for everyone's benefit! Discussions on market value, firearm specs and unique features are very welcome! I would like to call this "game show" Can It Be Found.

The first one on our list is the Japanese Arisaka Type 38 Carbine. These carbines were part of a batch of rifles also given to China (I believe only China, if there are other countries that did conversions, please inform!) and were converted into 8X57mm Mauser. The quality of these conversions have been known to be "sufficient" but perhaps not of the highest quality.

This post is specific to the Carbine itself, however, if no carbines show up please feel free to post pictures and information of the rifles!

Thank you,
Drachenblut

 

[bearhunter]

Drach, I may be wrong on this but a lot of Arisakas were left behind in China at the end of WWII. The Japanese, also built Arisakas in Manchurian factories. It is my understanding, that the Chinese actually built Arisakas on captured Japanese machinerey in 7.92x57. The 7.92x57, was the cartridge of choice for China for close to 50 years, so it would make sense for them to manufacture or convert the Arisakas.

 

[smellie]

Bearhunter is quite right. Arisakas in 7.92x57 were manufactured at Mukden Arsenal for a few years after World War Two.

The trouble is trying to FIND one!
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[Talquin]

How many do you think are left that haven't been treated like trash. think of every Chiang Shek enfield, Chinese Mauser, and every piece of Russian machinery that has been passed along, none of it comes out .

 

[bearhunter]

About 20 years ago, Internationl was selling Chiang Kai Shek mausers. They were Chinese built and all were at best, in fair only condition. They were ridden hard and put away wet. They were functional though and made a good basis for a custom rifle.
They also had about 100+ Model 99 Arisaka rifles in 7.92x57. They were in the same condition as the Chiang Kai Shek Mausers. They all sold for less than $50 + taxes and shipping. I bought one of each. It is debatable if they were worth anything, other than scrap metal. Interestingly, they were all Chinese marked. The 98s and T99s, had a large emblem on the receiver with a backwards swastika.

 

[Drachenblut]

Bearhunter, would you be able to post pictures of the Chinese T99?

 

[smellie]

I really don't think China ever scraps guns. They just run them and run them and run them from one organisation to another. Remember, they have 400,000,000 OR MORE potential soldiers to equip and they really take the "workers' militia" idea seriously.

What I'm hoping for is that somewhere there is a warehouse with some of those 30,000 all-but-forgotten .43-calibre Remington-Lee rifles, all in superb condition.

Please God, is that too much to ask for? I only want ONE!

Quote to remember: "China could lose 300 million in a war and it would be stronger afterwards than before." (Mao Tse-tung, Chairman of the PRC, circa 1964)

Another important quote: "Tuna NOW!" (Mousey Tongue, fussy Cat, 2010)
.

 

[desporterizer]

Here are pics of both a 8mm arisaka & a chinese mauser. Both where worn to say the least.

 

[bearhunter]

Drach, I'm sorry but I don't have one to take a picture of. Both rifles I had, were traded off at least 15 years ago. I know the Mauser, was torn down and turned into a hunting rifle. I have no idea where the Arisaka ended up.
The Arisakas, usually get the name "Hangyang type 99". They get the name because the Hangyang Arsenal, refitted most of them to 7.92x57. As smellie mentioned previously, they were also made up new on captured japanese equipment. He mentions the Mukden arsenal. I don't know. in WHB Smith's "Book Of Rifles" he states that China made up type 99 Arisakas in Manchurian plants on captured machinery in both 7.7 and 7.92. He also states that many of the 7.92 Arisakas went to Korea with Chinese troops. The USA, also converted thousands of Type99 rifles to 30-06, the cut outs on the receiver are obvious as are the ground receivers.

The Chinese Type 99 short rifle that I bought, looked exactly like the crude late war versions. very poorly finished. The real difference was on the receiver. It was made with a Chinese symbol in a box, rather than Japanese characters. I understand, the Japanese borrowed their symbols (alphabet) from China several centuries ago. Maybe that's why the symbol, rather than the characters.

That's about all I know and some of that may not be totally correct.

One other tid bit, from what I gather, the factories in Manchuria, were taken over by the communist Chinese in late 1945 and started up by their government. I doubt that any new rifles came off the lines until 1946. The Chinese were desperate for small arms and manufacturing facilities and equipment were in short supply. Most of the lend lease equipment they had, was used hard and in poor repair. The Chinese, got a lot of aid, in the form of materials. They had lots of people to arm and they didn't need much incentive to fight, after the way the Japanese treated them.

I have only seen one Chinese manufactured Mauser that could be called Good to Very Good and that was pushing the bounds. Their Mausers and Arisakas went out all over the far east as aid in later years. The Americans, picked them up a souveniers in Korea and the US. The UK, ran accross them in Malaysia and Malaya. To my knowledge, there are no reliable estimates as to how many were made or survive.

As I mentioned, mine was crude. I was also abused. The bore only had a shadow of rifling left, the stock was oil soaked, dented and cracked. It was also the worst action I have ever worked. I doubt their soldiers, had a lot of love for them.

The type 38 rifles on the other hand are quite smooth in comparison.

 

[bearhunter]

desporteriser, Those rifles are veritable jewels in comparison to the rifles I had. I do have a lower stock from one of those, that's in better shape than that one, it came in a bunch of stuff left on my doorstep.