Can you neck size with a full size die?

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New to reloading,,,got the equipment but haven't started yet, and have this question. Most of the reloading I'll be doing will be with once fired brass from my own rifle or from brass that will be resized with a full size die. Once I've fired these off they will noww be fire formed to my rifle so for the most part all I really need to do is neck size,,,right?

I've heard that you can neck size with full sizing dies by just turning the die back a few turns. I believe a few of the manuals mention it, as well. Does it work well or would you recommend buying a neck sizing die? I know with those you don't need to use any lube. If you can neck size with full dies do you use the lube?

As always, any info will be appreciated~
 
Through die adjustment you can partial resize the case.

Its true that your case is fire formed to the rifles chamber but not necessarily to the size die.

Partial re-sizing generally does not set the shoulder back.

A properly set up size die that sets the shoulder back 1-1.5 thousands will serve you better when using full re-sizing die, you will need lube.

If your intent on neck sizing then look at a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die (~ $30), no lube required, easy to set up and use. After about 10 firings or so, you will have to bump the shoulders back 1-1.5 thou, use your properly set up full length size die for that. Brass life is greatly enhanced using the Lee.
 
1. You can also "Full" Neck Size with some Full Length Sizing Dies. For example, a 325 WSM F/L Die can act as a "Universal" 8mm Neck Sizer. It is large enough in diameter and has a sharp enough shoulder angle that it will only touch the neck of most 8mm brass smaller in diameter than 325 WSM. Where you have to be careful is with neck tension - due to varying thicknesses of brass at the neck, it might be too loose or too tight. Same can be said for several of the dies in the 300 WSM Family, e.g. 6.5/300 WSM.

Here's a pic of the 300 WSM - look at other 30 cal dimensions here: http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm and you can see what I mean:

cd300winchestershortmagnum.jpg


2. a variation on #1. Some F/L or Seating Dies dies (Seating Dies are typically 5-10 thou larger at the base than F/L Dies) have the right diameter about their base to use as a Neck Sizer. For example, I use 44 Mag dies to Neck Size 41 Swiss. Again, hit and miss concerning diameter and Neck Tension.

e.g. a 308/30-06 family Seating Die as a Neck Sizer for 45 Cal, e.g. 45-70, 458 Win Mag. It's trial and error.
 
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Anytime you full size you should be using lube. I prefer imperial sizing wax , and I haven't heard of any fullsize die that you can adjust to size neck only. There are many different styles and price points as I'm sure some will chime in very soon. Myself I resize after every fire and have the die set up so it only bumps the shoulder back .0005 and chambers perfect. Lots of options to choose .
 
Trying to neck size with a FL die doesn't gain you much. You can "partially" resize to fit your chamber exactly (and it has worked very well in a couple of my guns) but I think you need to bump the shoulder back to avoid lengthening the case as you squeeze the body to get the neck high enough to size it down. That needs lube, and proper adjustment is more complex than just backing the die out a couple of turns.

I think that if you want to neck size, get a neck sizing die. I like the Lee Collet dies too, but I use others at times as well for pure neck sizing.
 
If you reloading to near max or max, then you should be bumping the shoulder back about .0001". I would define this as partial resizing. neck sizing works best on lighter loads. IMHO. Ballistol works great as a case lubricant.
 
Below, Kevin Thomas worked for Sierra bullets in the ballistic test lab and now shoots for "Team Lapua USA".
I'm a firm believer in the cartridge should fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case.


Y3IiYL5.jpg
 
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I know some competitive LR shooters that full length re-size with a shoulder bump of 0.001", brass life is amazing long.

There is a catch though, the die is honed to exact dimensions, the reason for a 'freely' fitting cartridge is it does not interrupt the cadence of loading , firing, and ejecting in a match situation. The shooter may want to get all the rounds of as quickly as possible when conditions are perfect. This can produce better groups as enviro's are minimized for the duration of the string.

Watch this ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD8MfeSVoE

I don't know what problems can occur by neck sizing, especially using a Lee Collet Die.
 
BCBRAD said:
I don't know what problems can occur by neck sizing, especially using a Lee Collet Die.
Click to expand...

I think there are quite a few reloaders who would say, "None". I prefer to do the "partial resize to fit the chamber" method most of the time, but there is no denying neck sizing can save time and fiddling, and Collet dies work well for that purpose.
 
When you full length resize the case is supported by the bolt face and the bullet in the throat. The body of the case and the neck do not touch the chamber walls. The only part of the case that touches the chamber is the shoulder. And the case is pushed forward by the ejector until the case shoulder touches the shoulder of the chamber. And this is the where the "rat turd in the violin case" comes from and was meant as humor. Meaning a full length resized case is better than a neck sized case when it comes to bullet alignment with the bore. And the full length resized case gives the bullet a little wiggle room to self align woth the axis of the bore.

Full length resizing greatly reduces the chances of the case causing bullet misalignment with the axis of the bore. Meaning a case that does not have even case wall thickness can warp when fired and become banana shaped.

runout_zpsfe87d011.jpg


Below a poor quality case that even neck turning will not fix, and if only neck sized the bullet will not align with the bore.

neckcenter_zps94286f86.jpg


Below a poor quality Remington .223 case with .004 neck thickness variation and some of these cases had as much as .008 variation. Cases like this in my opinion are only good for blasting ammo in my AR15 carbine. It also explains why competitive shooters use higher quality Lapua brass.

IMG_2136_zps079ece9b.jpg


IMG_2137_zps66bcfc13.jpg


So with average Remchester brass and a off the shelf factory rifle I think full length resizing is best. (the rat turd in the violin case)
 
I have an old RCBS neck sizer for 308W,I use it for 308,7.62x54,7.5 Swiss,303 Brit.It's just a matter of adjusting it.
I deprime as separate step with Lee die.Works for me.
 
why neck size when you can have a redding FL bushing die adjusted to bump 1-2 thou and give you 2 mils of neck tension?
 
bigedp51 said:
Below, Kevin Thomas worked for Sierra bullets in the ballistic test lab and now shoots for "Team Lapua USA".
I'm a firm believer in the cartridge should fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case.


KTLapua-b_zps8d1abc2c.jpg
Click to expand...

bigedp51 said:
When you full length resize the case is supported by the bolt face and the bullet in the throat. The body of the case and the neck do not touch the chamber walls. The only part of the case that touches the chamber is the shoulder. And the case is pushed forward by the ejector until the case shoulder touches the shoulder of the chamber. And this is the where the "rat turd in the violin case" comes from and was meant as humor. Meaning a full length resized case is better than a neck sized case when it comes to bullet alignment with the bore. And the full length resized case gives the bullet a little wiggle room to self align woth the axis of the bore.

Full length resizing greatly reduces the chances of the case causing bullet misalignment with the axis of the bore. Meaning a case that does not have even case wall thickness can warp when fired and become banana shaped.

runout_zpsfe87d011.jpg


Below a poor quality case that even neck turning will not fix, and if only neck sized the bullet will not align with the bore.

neckcenter_zps94286f86.jpg


Below a poor quality Remington .223 case with .004 neck thickness variation and some of these cases had as much as .008 variation. Cases like this in my opinion are only good for blasting ammo in my AR15 carbine. It also explains why competitive shooters use higher quality Lapua brass.

IMG_2136_zps079ece9b.jpg


IMG_2137_zps66bcfc13.jpg


So with average Remchester brass and a off the shelf factory rifle I think full length resizing is best. (the rat turd in the violin case)
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for that! love learning something new. For years I've obsessed with neck sizing. gonna have to do some side by side comparisons. These are the things I love about reloading, always something to learn and experiment!
 
I have found neck sizing only to give extreme "run out" too much of the time..........I use the partial size method with RCBS dies and set my die so that I can feel slight tension just before the bolt hits full bottom. This way, I have had minimum "run out" of my loaded rounds and I know I'm not stretching cases unnecessarily and shortening their life span. With some chambers and dies this set up is full down on the shell holder and with others it is a full turn or more above the shell holder. Dies and chambers have tolerances so it is necessary to set each die to each chamber individually even for the same cartridge in different rifles. I then run every case I'm loading, through it's intended rifle before charging and seating the bullet. I have had loaded rounds that would not chamber using this set up because they had been fired at a greater pressure than the case used to set the die and sprang back more than the chamber would allow. This happens when doing test loads and the upper end loads are hot, but you happen to choose a lower pressured case to set the die with. It's a real PIA to have to pull bullets and resize again, and much more time consuming than running 50 or 100 cases through the rifle to begin with.
 
I only neck size fire formed brass - dbl check headspace afterwards - do not load anything hot - when I buy new brass regardless of perceived quality - I neck size them too
 
Well - One advantage to partial resizing is the ability to use the same brass in several rifles, rather than segregating brass and using a neck sizing die. I do this with 303 - I partially resize to the tightest chamber (BSA P-14) and load away...
 
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